What Do You Do When The Church Is Closed?

Clint  0:00

Hi, everybody, welcome to another episode of the spiritual cake podcast, we talk about anything and everything that has to do with that spiritual side of our lives. I mean, we understand the material and the intellectual and the emotional, but the spiritual is a source of great curiosity for myself, my name is Clint Hufft, and also for my co host, Wendy Dahl.

Wendy  0:27

Hello, Clint.

You know, I actually thought about different ways that I could say hello, when I was driving in the car the other day, and I did. And I thought, that’s a really funny thing to think about.

Actually saying, This is what I’m gonna say,

Clint  0:43

Okay, but I just want you to know that and I think I speak for all of the listeners. You don’t have to put that pressure on yourself. It’s fine. Right? We just want you to live and breathe.

Wendy  0:55

Know, I’m alive and breathing. Yes.

Clint  0:59

Well, listener, please understand that this is an open conversation. And neither Wendy nor I are officially ordained clergy. What that means is, neither of us have have attended seminary or rabbinical school or any of that kind of stuff. We are two people that well, Wendy was raised Mormon, I was raised Lutheran, but then we each have been exposed to a lot of different theologies and philosophies. I’ve done my own exploration. But also both of us are involved in the event industry, where we work with a myriad of people, primarily for milestones in a person’s life, specifically, weddings, or bar and Bat Mitzvahs, and things like that. So we’ve been having these great conversations. And at the end of this episode, we will give you all the ways that you can contact us and join in on the conversation. But Wendy, you have something that you wanted to talk about today, and I really like it. Before we hit the record button, you started to kind of expound on it a little bit. And I got really excited and want to start recording right away. So hit it.

Wendy  2:00

Okay, so in our last episode, we spoke about how when you go to certain places, like a synagogue, or a church, or Cathedral or temple, how it feels differently, and how we feel connected to a spiritual sensation, where it’s positive and uplifting, and you feel like it’s different. And so, all this past week, I was reflecting on Well, how can I make it so that I feel that way without having to go to church because obviously, right now, we’re restricted based on what’s happening in the world with COVID-19. And, we’re not able to attend church like we normally would. It’s almost for me, it’s a sense of loss, where I feel that feeling that I get when I go to church, of it being a sacred place where it feels different, I miss going, and doing my daily routine, as I do now. And so then the question that was on my heart was, well, how do I feel that connection without being in a holy place? How can I make myself or how can I reconnect with, in my case, God, so that I still feel connected and that I feel closed. And I feel like I’m always turning to God instead of away. Because I feel like right now, that’s a very easy thing to do since I go to church every Sunday. And because that’s not happening right now. I’m feeling like, Well, that was my mega dose of spirituality that I got every week. And I’m not getting that right now. So what am I doing? Like, how can I make it so that I still feel connected? And that I still feel like spirituality is an important role in my life?

Clint  3:44

That’s obviously a very legitimate question. And I think that a lot of people are going through exactly the same thing. I heard a couple of things there while you were describing all of that. Number one, just a little refresher, for those of you who would like to go back an episode, we talked about the interesting phenomena of feeling a spiritual connection through an inanimate object. We talked about what it feels like when you go into a house of worship, and there’s just a different vibe. When I was studying yoga, they talked about how, if you have the right intention, you can actually infuse like a place in your house or we had yoga mats that we meditated on every time and they talked about how there is a different vibration that goes into an inanimate object, if you consistently are elevating your, I guess your vibration, as it were. Again, a few episodes back, we talked about meditation, and you brought up the idea that it’s brainwaves and there’s different frequencies of brainwaves and vibrations and things like that. So the other thing that I want to before we start talking into the different ways to for people to cope with kind of worshipping in isolation.

There’s been so much in the news lately about, I don’t know how they measure this, but the increase in depression, because, there’s a lot of different types of personalities. If you’ve ever done those personality tests, like the what is it the epstein barr? No, that’s something else, isn’t it?

Wendy  5:42

I’ve actually taken that test twice in two different time times of my life, and it was identical each time.

Clint  5:49

I just would acknowledge that epstein barr i think is a medical condition. So please don’t go there.

Okay, so the, what is it Meyer, what is it?

Wendy  5:58

Meyers-Briggs.

Clint  6:00

I love those things. I went through this phase about, I don’t know, 20 years ago, where I took every test I could in regards to personality tests and IQ tests. And, I just really thought that was a lot of fun. Alright, so the point that I wanted to make is that there are some people who are just really introverted, and there are some people who are really extroverted. And the way that I heard it described is the amount of energy that you feel after you’ve been around a lot of people. For introverts, they feel drained, for extroverts they feel charged. Have you heard that before?

Wendy  6:37

I have and for a person because I feel like I’m both, I walk in both worlds of being an introvert and an extrovert. And so I appreciate both sides.

Clint  6:50

I think it’s a real thing. You know what I mean? I’m an introvert, personally, but all of my work has been extroverted. I’ve been on stage and in front of a camera my entire life. I really enjoy that. But I don’t feel when I was working in nightclubs, I do remember that post performance, let down every single time. And it isn’t so much that it’s a depression. It’s just that I can feel myself relaxing, and the peace that comes with that the job is over. Even though I love my work, I’ve loved it my entire life. I’m just wired to do it. But now getting back to the whole idea of being used to worshipping in a community. And we talked about the power of that, how there is such a thing as mob mentality, both positive and negative. And as you worship, and if you’re surrounded by people that are also in the same state of mind, that it can increase the power of your internal process. Does that make sense?

Wendy  7:51

It makes perfect sense. And I think I’ve brought to the forefront. The example that I saw once were with a woman who was pregnant, she was going through a difficult time, and it showed all the women around her, they were in prayer, but they were all touching each other like a network.

Clint  8:07

I just edited that episode, and we posted it this weekend. And that whole imagery was incredibly powerful. Now, to your point, what do you do, if you’re not allowed to go into the same facility, the same space, if we’re not only socially distancing, but there are some places that are completely shut down, and you cannot go in there for safety and for the pandemic, and all that stuff. I certainly understand why those restrictions are put in place, because they’re going other places where people went in and thought that they were bathed in the blood of Christ and they weren’t susceptible to the virus, and that didn’t turn out well. So I think that you have started to explain what you’ve done to deal with this feeling. So go ahead and if you don’t mind dive into that.

Wendy  9:03

Okay, so for myself, I talk about the the mega dose of going to church every Sunday where I feel spiritually connected both to the community and closer to God. And so for me, it’s been Okay, so how do I deal with that now, and in my particular church, there’s plenty of videos and content out there for me to watch, and I know in other churches, like I’ve attended with some friends, where it’s every Sunday, it’s a broadcast, and that hasn’t stopped for them. And so, in my church, there isn’t something like that, which I wish that there was. In the Mormon faith, because that’s what I am. We have certain things that you would do to remain close to God and that would be prayer, obviously attending church, which you cannot do now and reading the scriptures. And so for me, it’s been prayer and scriptures, but it’s also been looking for other uplifting things. And so for me, obviously going into nature, I would call that God’s tabernacle, is something that’s very refreshing for me. But when I can’t do that, like on a regular basis when I’m working out of the house and I don’t really leave the house a whole lot, that I’m surrounding myself with positive things like I watch videos, I listen to podcasts, I listen to different videos from other churches, I read books. And so it’s all of those things of like maintaining that connection, where I still feel like that spiritual side is very important to me. And it’s important to maintain, and it’s just maintaining it differently. And it’s become more personal.

Clint  10:41

Just a quick note, you said tabernacle. I’m guessing that that is the space of worship at a Mormon facility that’s like, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. They’re the choir that sings in the big tabernacle in Salt Lake City.

Wendy  10:56

That’s just a building. But I suppose it was just a word that can be meant something more, it’s a grand thing, like God created it. Isn’t it amazing? Like being added?

Clint  11:06

I see what you’re saying, in nature. I was just making sure that we understood the definition of that word. Yeah. I’m guessing it’s kind of like the cathedral? Yeah, yes. I saw that one time where I lived in Huntington Beach. You probably even know this park, I forget the name of it. It’s on Main Street. And if you walk amongst the trees and look up, they kind of when I lived there in the late 70s, mid 80s, the trees formed like a roof. They came together at a peak. And so my friend said he always felt like he was in church, when he stood amongst those trees, just because of the way they grew together. I would imagine that what we’re talking about is kind of multifaceted, because we’re talking about being inspired by the written word, and the spoken word. And the thing that’s lacking is the community. We can have a community, because of zoom, and all that type of stuff. But there’s a different feeling when you’re able to hug people or shake their hands or sit next to people and have that physical community, right there with you. I think that’s what we’re dealing with. Is that, right?

Wendy  12:25

That’s exactly what it is. It’s almost like finding a replacement for community. And, still fulfilling that connection where you feel like you’re getting enough of a dose where it’s not the mega dose of going to church, but it’s smaller doses, so to speak.

Clint  12:39

You know, I was amazed when my dad passed. He actually died the last day of 1979. And then we had his service A couple of days later. What I was very surprised with, because I live a pretty stoic life, you know what I mean? I’m not overly effusive with certain things. But I was amazed at how it made me feel better when I got sympathy cards. I never thought that was a thing until I experienced it, how just a simple card with I’m thinking of you, and I’m sorry for your loss, whatever it is, just that note, made me feel better. And now in this world of social media, somebody will post something, and they’ll explain that they had a loss. And I purposely respond with sincere condolences, every single time, because I know on a very small level, it helps. So now we’re talking about the spiritual community. And I think it might be beneficial to do things like that, where people actually receive something that affirms the connection, even if you’re not skin on skin or whatever it is, you still have that kind of connection to people that want to feel appreciated and validated. And, that they belong. Does that make sense?

Wendy  14:08

That makes perfect sense. Yes.

Clint  14:12

And I don’t know all of the different venues or avenues by which that can be communicated, but I think anything would suffice. Now, for the person that is suffering from a depression that’s brought on by loneliness. That’s a different ballgame. So then, if you’re on the receiving end of that, if you are feeling depressed, because you miss the community. I don’t know what to say.

Wendy  14:42

Well, I agree with that. Only because I feel like there’s among the depression, this feeling of loneliness. I would say the hardest thing for me and what I lose this perspective is when I start to feel despair, and it’s that sensation of truly being alone. And in that moment, and you’re sitting there and you’re feeling all of those feelings, the weight of being alone is a very difficult thing. And I would imagine that part of what I feel of not being able to go to church is exactly that, where I feel like I’m alone. And so to overcome that, is where I’m starting to focus more on building relationships with other people that are in the same sort of position is asking around, like, Is anybody doing a Bible study virtually? I have found an app, actually, where there’s a bunch of women inside of it, that are having conversations about specific scriptures. And that’s been fascinating. And so I’m finding that I’m trying to supplement that sense of community, so that I don’t feel so alone with other things. And I’m kind of almost getting there. I feel encouraged and light and happy. But it’s still not the same. And so it’s been a great challenge.

Clint  16:15

Well, the phrase, it’s still not the same, is legitimate. But I don’t know, I think that’s just what life is: the only constant is change. The other thing when you said the word despair, I don’t know why but my immediate thought went to what’s the opposite of despair. And I thought, hope. What a wonderful age we live in, where we have the opportunity to be connected to people all over the world. These anonymous people that share something in common or a curiosity. Even if they think differently, even if they’re on polar opposites of certain concepts, it almost doesn’t matter, because they came to this connectivity, with a purpose of feeling. Well, one would think of feeling spiritual. Because that’s the way I’m hearing you say it. If you’re going to analyze scripture, you want to feel spiritual, if you’re going to pray, you’re going to want to feel spiritual, you want to connect to that. That aspect of humanity. That is the purpose of this entire podcast. And I I like the way that you reached out and figured out what is available to you, technologically. And it makes sense with the millions of apps that are out there, that there would be something like this that’s available.

How did you find it? What did you search for?

Wendy  17:40

I actually was looking up different girls or women that are in that spiritual community type thing. And so I came upon this group, or it’s a website, it’s called, she reads truth. And they’ve taken the Bible and turned it into beautiful books that you can write in the columns and stuff. So they have an app that says she reads truth. And inside of that, they release different series over time. You’re essentially doing Bible study with other women focused on like, the Beatitudes are different aspects of things that you find inside of Scripture.

Clint  18:24

And it’s only Mormon, is it?

Wendy  18:27

No, it’s not Mormon at all. I would just say Christian, because I don’t even know that the form of the Bible is the same one, as we do. The King James Version, I believe it’s, is it NLP?

Clint  18:47

Oh, I don’t know. New language version?

Wendy  18:52

I don’t know. But it’s Yeah. So it’s slightly different, where the words are simpler and easier to understand when reading the King James Version, right. It’s been really fulfilling to go in and look at women where they’re talking about, Oh, my gosh, I can identify with this. This is a big challenge in my life. This is what I’m dealing with in my family, what did you do and then to see the responses of other women stepping up and saying, Oh, my gosh, I’m there with you. This is what I did. There’s no audio, it’s just reading the texts of other people conversing and to me, that has given me a somewhat connection. I’m finding that there’s a lot of women that have congregated together, especially during this time where we still seek out the connection of being with other women spiritually.

Clint  19:47

What I’m about to say might be politically incorrect, but I think that’s there’s a gender difference there. I don’t know why, but my observation has been that women are very much community driven and oriented. One of the things that really drove this home for me was when we had our first child, and the information that well, more specifically my wife, because I wasn’t really in that loop of moms. But the amount of information that travels amongst mothers. I discovered this and you should try that. And did you see this? Is wonderful. It’s just amazing. And so  it sounds to me, because you kept using the word women that are involved in Scripture and women that are communicating with each other. And I see the power of that kind of activity, that seems to be more natural for women in it. I so admire that. I think that’s really powerful. First of all, am I close to being on base with that? Or what do you think of that?

Wendy  20:56

I yeah, I believe that community is a huge part of women or being a woman, or we seek that. I think it’s something that we’re born with, to be honest. Because from the beginning, when you’re very little you look to be close friends with other girls. And I remember that being very important to me, and having that relationship with my mom, and now as an adult with other women.

Clint  21:28

Yeah, that’s a completely different conversation, I think.

Wendy  21:29

Well, yeah, but also, with all the psychological books that I’ve read about women that we do prefer community and we enjoy it, and we thrive in it.

Clint  21:38

Yeah, we’re almost out of time. As long as we’ve touched on that, real quickly, for years I’ve been filtering everything through, why are we designed this way? And I go back to when humans had to survive in the wild, in the tribal, in the Serengeti, or whatever it was, and we had to have different personalities in order for the tribe to survive. The men are built a certain way in order to hunt and all that kind of stuff. And then women are very much, let’s take care of the tribe, and so it doesn’t make sense that if we are wired from a primal almost, well, from the beginning of humanity, to survive as a tribe, that it would make sense and very practical for the women to be able to communicate as a society because it’s a village, that whole thing about it takes a village to raise a child and they protect each other as a group and information is disseminated as a group. And, everybody is still kind of wired in that same primitive way. And it makes sense. And so getting back to what you’ve discovered, I just want to drive that home. You know, my next door neighbor is an Orthodox Jew. And I can almost guarantee if you found that kind of an app, I bet there’s a bunch of apps that are similar in the exploration of spirituality, whether it be in the Scriptures, or just the concepts of philosophy and theology of all different kinds of doctrines. I bet that all stuff is all out there. I mean, did you choose from more than one?

Wendy  23:18

As far as the spiritual thing out there?

Clint  23:21

as far as the app, what you decided to…

Wendy  23:24

I just figured start with this. And so I imagine that, like you said that there’s probably all kinds of things and likely even something that exists for Mormon women. But it seemed like this one, for me, I look for where is the good? Where’s the light? Where’s it coming from? I just felt it there when I was reading about the experiences of other women. Among that community, I just thought, gosh, this is so positive. I love this. And so I jumped in.

Clint  23:56

Yeah, I think everybody will have their own kind of set of filters, by what they connect with. But it kind of goes back to what we talked about, at the very beginning is that vibration, that feeling, that vibe that you get from something. And so I guess what the whole purpose of this particular episode is to provide hope for everybody that’s listening, that might be going through kind of a downer phase, due to everything that site is going through. But I just want to reinforce the concept of hope that there’s so many things out there that you can connect with. And one of the ways is this podcast. Wendy, if you don’t mind, please tell everybody how they can get in touch with us.

Wendy  24:35

Perfect. So you can find us at spiritualcake.com where we post all of our past episodes. If you want to catch up on our last episode. Go ahead and check that one out. And you can send us an email through the website or you can click on any one of our social media icons, and connect with us on Instagram and Facebook.

Clint  24:54

There you go. And remember that if you go to the Apple podcast store, and there’s a bunch of other apps that will access that particular directory, then you can subscribe to our podcast. And what I love about that is every time we post a new episode, it automatically comes into your podcast world. You don’t have to think about it. And if you’d like to, if you enjoy the conversations that we’ve been having, then please leave a review. That’d be fantastic. That’s another way for people to find us. And you can also email us at [email protected] and we are welcoming you with open arms. You can tell us a story or offer a particular point of view or ask us a question whatever you want to do. That’s it for this episode of the spiritual cake podcast. This is Clint and on behalf of Wendy, we will see you next time.