Tender Mercies or God Winks?

Clint  0:00

Hi, everybody, welcome to the spiritual cake podcast, we talk about anything and everything that has to do with that level of humanity that is beyond the immediate. I’ve never said that before. But what I’m thinking of is the physical, the mental, the emotional, but then we’re talking about the spiritual plane, which is something elevated from the day to day existence for most people. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if that was the day to day existence? I think there are some people that we admire a lot that have achieved that reality. My name is Clint hufft. And with me is Wendy Dahl. Wendy.

Wendy

Hello, hello.

Clint

Oh, now listener. If you’re joining us for the very first time, please know that we come to this with a big, big amount of humility. Neither Wendy nor I are ordained clergy. But we are incredibly curious. We have studied a lot of different things. We come from different backgrounds. Wendy grew up in the Mormon church. I grew up in a conservative Lutheran Church. But in the meantime, we have both been working in the event industry. And we have interfaced with a tremendous amount of ethnic, cultural, religious, philosophical diversity that has kind of fed into these conversations, in regards to, I’m curious about this, and I wonder about that. My experience is this and we invite you to join us in the conversation. And at the end of the episode, we’ll just tell you all the different ways that you can contact us,

Wendy, you had something you said something before I hit the record button that really struck me, because I think I don’t really understand exactly what it means. You use the phrase tender mercies.

Wendy  1:42

Tender mercies. Yeah.

Clint 1:43

Can you explain that from your perspective?

Wendy  1:46

In a previous episode, we talked about God winks where it’s just those little moments of recognition that God is still there. And so in tender mercies it’s pretty much when you’re going through the hard times of life that we all experience. That you’re always feeling that sense of comfort. That you’re feeling like someone shows up miraculously and brings joy to you, or they bring comfort to you. Or in today’s in today’s world I’m hearing so many people have their pay cut or they lose their jobs. But then somehow something happens where they get money to pay their bills. And it’s those things where it’s almost like if you were not to think of God being involved in it, you would think of it as a lucky break, or as something that it was like, oh, man, I really needed that in this moment. And so for me, the tender mercies are when you’re going through the hard time, that God’s there and they have your pain, he has your back, and he’s rooting for you and he brings you something that you need. That you didn’t even expect.

Clint  3:04

Okay, so to differentiate, tender mercies is when something good happens to you unexpected, right? An unexpected good thing.

Wendy  3:14

Particularly during a challenge,

Clint  3:19

And then God winks is what?

Wendy  3:25

It’s pretty much when you’re going along through life and everything’s status quo or good and just normal and then all of a sudden something really cool happens and you’re like, Ah, that’s a God wink. I would say that the differences in the tender mercies are when you’re going through those hard times and you need that mercy and you need that comfort and you need extra support that miraculously just shows up in your life.

Clint  3:52

Okay, I get it. I understand that that makes total sense. I always depended upon the starting place, but I also I have to tell you that when you say God winks, I think of God’s sense of humor. Like, I think Robin Williams explained that from the standpoint of the platypus. What the heck is that thing? It’s a duck, but it’s a mammal, but it’s a you know. So I think in terms of people, there’s something that’s interesting to me, we talk about spirituality, and what we’re trying to achieve is to raise our consciousness or raise our everyday kind of going through our daily activities from an elevated place. Boy, I tell you language is kind of rough sometimes. But first of all, does that sound familiar to what we’ve been talking about is that we were trying to elevate our awareness?

Wendy  4:50

Absolutely, instead of it being in the drudgery of day to day, to kind of expand a bit and to notice that there’s more going on. And there’s more at play that makes sense sometimes like when I think of God winks, and I think of tender mercies, I think of things that are extraordinary, that are not necessarily life altering, but to where you didn’t expect them, so to speak. And then there they are. And it’s like this little miracle.

Clint  5:22

I think that draws into consideration if we’re open to the little things. Now, what you’re talking about would be for some person where it’d be a big thing where a tremendous amount of relief comes into their lives, whether like, kind of what happened to you with a miracle and the job and that sort of thing. But I think in regards to the little things that come along, I’ll tell you what is the foundation for this. What I’m bringing up is the frustration of people that are Debbie downers. That’s frustrating for me, because I would rather be happy, right? And so I know a lot of people that that seems to be their default. And whenever I see somebody behave like that, I just kind of say to myself, I wonder if that’s the way they’re wired. Or if that’s just the environment that they grew up in with, they’re always considering the negative, like, if you give them a compliment, they immediately try to diminish the compliment. Or if you say, God, that was fantastic. Or how about, Oh, I got this check, a residual check. Let’s say that you’re in the entertainment industry, and you got a residual check. And then the very next statement is, yeah, imagine what it would be like if you had done dah dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. You know, like, it’s not good enough. I’m a little sad about that. Because while Yes, it could be better depending upon your criteria for what better is. What it is, is wonderful. Does that make sense? Do I need to clarify that?

Wendy  7:02

No, it does. All my studies about happiness, they always say that some of it is genetic, where up to 50% of how you experience happiness has to do with your genetics, which, to me I don’t necessarily agree with but they do say that you have some control and some ability to influence the other half and part of it they do mention is that your environment influences that. And we can go down the whole rabbit hole of happiness and how people are happy. There are third world countries with very little yet they’re happier than people that have everything. So it goes down the same path of when you’re looking for the good and when you’re experiencing good. Like you said, the Debbie downers out there are in the frame of mind that to them is comfortable. It’s comfortable based on however it was that they’re raised or their the way that they talk to themselves. It’s more comfortable to downplay anything good than it is to look at it and recognize it for what it is.

Clint  8:13

It’s weird, isn’t it? I say weird because it’s foreign to me. I. But then I always think in regards to my analogy of human beings living in a tribe, and that in order for the tribe to be able to survive, there’s got to be a number of different skill sets and personalities that you’re just born with. Some people are naturally fighters, some people are naturally nurturers. Some people naturally have a green thumb, so they can grow things or hunt things or figure things out or provide wisdom or whatever it is. And I wonder what’s the purpose of the negativity? What’s the purpose of the Debbie Downer? And while I’m saying that out loud, I have a theory want to hear it?

Wendy  8:55

Yes, good.

Clint  8:57

I’m glad you said yes. Cuz I was gonna say anyway,

Okay, so I, there was a book that I read. Let me back up, let me back up. We’ve referenced before the guy who is the co author of the Chicken Soup for the Soul series, Mark Victor Hansen. And he wrote a book in conjunction with a guy who was a real estate expert. And I forget exactly what the purpose was for them collaborating on the book, I have a feeling that it was more along the lines of motivational, that sort of thing, but they presented the concept of a team of maybe five people, but each person in the team had a specific personality that would service the project. First of all, does that sound familiar?

Wendy  9:49

I believe I’ve read this, but it’s been a while. So keep on going.

Clint  9:54

Okay, here we go. So the idea is that number one, you have the Idea person, the person who’s the innovator who is always thinking of ways to improve a situation. Then the next person on the team is the negative person is the person. I don’t know how the best way to say this, but they’ll find the flaws. They’re looking for the weaknesses in the idea, they can’t help it. They’re always thinking, that’ll never work, or this is going to get in the way and whatever. Then the third person is the person who knows how to fix things. So if it does go south, for this reason, or that reason, here’s how we recover from that or here’s how we prevent that. Then the fourth person is the logistics person who figures out how to get it done. And then the fifth person is the doer, is the person that actually does stuff. They probably don’t even care, like, what’s the reasoning behind it or whatever. Just tell me what you want me to do, and I’m going to get it done. So to recap it’s the idea person, There’s the critical person. There’s the fix it person. There’s the logistic person. And then there’s the doer. Those five people. And there’s a some sort of anagram, where it spells out like turtle or something like that. I forget what it was. It’s been a long time since I read that book. So I can see within that context that if there was a Debbie Downer, then they would maybe provide that service to the tribe of here’s what could go wrong. Which, quite honestly, that’s the way I approach events, you probably have the same type of part of your, your process where you look at what the client wants, and you say, What could possibly go wrong with this so that I can fix it before it happens?

Wendy  11:43

Exactly. Yeah. But I don’t think we’re describing all of those people. I just thought to myself, boy, is that a perfect team or what? And then I was thinking introspectively How could I adapt each one of those skills into me so that I am whole So that I could be all of those people.

Clint  12:12

Well, there’s a book written by a surgeon. And it’s the Checklist Manifesto. I think that’s what the book is called. And this surgeon is from like Michigan or Minnesota or someplace like that. And it was fascinating because it is exactly what you think it would be. It’s checklists and how to create them and why we need them. And the example is, I mentioned he’s a surgeon. Well, he realized that there was a bunch of stuff in the hospital that he was working at, that we’re going wrong. And if it goes wrong in a hospital, that’s really a bad thing for the patients. I mean, that’s bad, bad. And so he figured out that if he created a checklist. And a lot of it was human error, and carelessness. And so what he did was he worked with some nurses and created a checklist. We have to sterilize this. We have to do this. It’s very thorough and it’s very Like this, this, this, this this, let’s say before we go into surgery. So he created it and it worked out and he sees that it’s efficient and it’s thorough, and he decided not to give it to the surgeons. And he said, speaking as a surgeon, I know that we are egotists. And we have to be in order to have the confidence to do what we do. He gave it to the nurses. He gave it to the nurses because the nurses have no problem with saying no, we can’t take another step forward. We still have to do this step. And it was frustrating to the surgeons at the beginning. But then they realized that they were saving lives. And the statistics are dramatic to where they reduced the amount of infections and consequently deaths. Like to where it was less than 1% in the hospital. from it. I don’t know what it was before that. But the point is, is that it’s like a checklist. And so you and I have like a mental checklist. Maybe you have a physical one. I don’t know But as an officiant, I have a mental checklist when I show up. And I look around and I think, Okay, what could possibly go wrong? Thinking that the people that are going to get married and everybody that’s there to to love them. They don’t want to see how the sausage is made. They just want this wonderful experience. And so here we are. So there’s a difference between that which is pointed towards a positive outcome, and the downer person that just wants to revel in the negative.

Does that make sense?

Wendy  14:31

It does and, and I always think of it as the negative because I’ve had people like that in my life. And some of them are even family members where you love them anyway, even though those are their attributes, but yet, as an outside observer, I think to myself, but they are missing so much, because they are stuck in that frame of mind where they have to see the bad. There was one person in particular where she felt that that was her job. Her job was to point out all the flaws and that we all had to listen to her and that her opinion mattered and that what we were doing, we were just rays of sunshine that just were going to be blotted out. I just thought, Man, that’s a lot of energy to be in that position, where you’re actively looking for the bad and that you believe it’s your job. But that was where that was her comfort zone.

Clint  15:26

That’s interesting. That’s just fascinating to me. And so, before we hit the record button, I was thinking about people like that, and how do those of us who are not like that, cope with that? Because I am susceptible to that negative energy. I mentioned that it’s frustrating. And sometimes I get caught up in it. If you ever had a conversation and when you’re done with the conversation, maybe it was an argument or a disagreement or whatever it is. When you get done with a conversation. You realize that you were playing somebody else’s game. While you were in that discussion, they sucked you into a false premise or they knocked you kind of off of your course. And you engaged in something that wasn’t truly what you believed in or what isn’t truly your values. And then it takes that moment of awareness afterwards to if you want to have a course correction for the next time, it happens. But first of all, have you ever had a conversation like that? Where you when it was all over? You said, Wait a minute, what did I just do?

Wendy  16:34

Yes, actually, and sometimes I can’t even recognize it as it’s happening. And I feel like there’s people out there that are masters at trap setting where there is no win for you based on who you are and what your DNA or your outlook is that they’re they are going to ensnare you into this trap to make you feel like they’re thinking or feeling.

Clint  16:57

I think some people are so so driven to To win, quote, unquote, win. That’s very subjective. Some people want conflict, and they feel like they’ve won, if they get you riled up. It doesn’t make any difference whether or not what their point of view makes sense or doesn’t make sense. They just really want to create. And you see that on the internet all the time. I guess they call it trolling. When you troll somebody, you’re trying to get an emotional response from them. So we’ve talked at the very beginning of this episode, and kind of the theme that we’re running through all of the entire podcast is the idea of how do we elevate to what we call the spiritual level? How do we elevate to where it’s practical, in our day to day experience, but still, it’s from an elevated point where I heard a definition. Tell me what you think of this, I heard of the definition of a guru is somebody who isn’t affected by anybody else. In other words, it’s kind of like what we’re talking about.

It’s not that you don’t care about people, there’s a tremendous amount of compassion. You want to engage and you care about the other person as a person. But you’re not brought down by the type of negativity that we’re talking about, or even somebody who has a behavior that might be self destructive or contrary to the better good. It’s like you have a sense of security that this person can’t diminish. Does that make sense?

Wendy  18:32

Yes, and I think of that as they are immune, where there are certain people that have been able to rise above the world. It’s almost like the minutiae of people where instead it’s an openness. When you’re open to observation while you’re experiencing things and to understand what the other person is going through and to realize, like in the position of my family member, that’s the debbie downer. All I did was I just acknowledged that that was who she is. And that’s what’s important to her, but that it doesn’t have to be important to me. And so of course, I was Little Miss Sunshine and I was showing her the opposite side of things. And I feel like we were kind of at the impasse a where I was comfortable knowing that she was a Debbie Downer and that I didn’t need to let her impact me. But that she, I don’t even know where she was in her frame of mind. But, yes, as far as that goes, where I feel like there’s people that when when you’re aware and open of other people’s feelings, and their thought processes, and you can stand in their shoes and listen. Actually, I was just thinking about this or listening to it on that. I was listening to the audio book, How to Win Friends and Influence People. And he was actually talking about this very thing where it was you need to be able to stand in somebody else’s shoes and give them what they need. To be able to have influence. And so in this perspective, what you’re talking about is how can you have influence over yourself. And that would be to be able to stand in the other person’s shoes and to observe and to know, based on where you want to stand, how you need to respond or how you need to show up in that relationship or conversation.

Clint  20:20

You know, what’s sticking for me is the concept of standing in their shoes. I don’t want to be in their shoes. They’re where they are, I’m where I am. And I just feel like the more confident and secure I am, in where I am. When I say secure, I mean, where I don’t have to defend it, and I don’t feel threatened. Because I think that’s the poison in what the human experience is the idea that because we’re built as social creatures, we have to, in a way we don’t want to get kicked out of the tribe. We don’t want to get kicked off the island because that from our thousands of year old DNA that is certain death if we get kicked out of the tribe, right? And so we want to try to get along, usually we want to try to get along. And, so if when somebody challenges a position, then I think there’s like a real primal thing that kicks in where we feel like we have to defend it almost as if our life depends on it. And I realize that some of the subjects that we defend are so they’re really trivial. Wear masks, don’t wear a mask. I mean, come on, that’s not that big of a thing. But for some people, it’s like really, really, really important. I think what I’m trying to establish is a place where you care about the other person, you want to understand the other person, you want not to diminish them in any way. Because where you are, doesn’t require that. It’s like you’ve gotten to a point where you understand enough about yourself. And, how the world works, that you while you’re still growing and learning, it’s not like you know all and you’re the best. Some people have that air superiority and it’s really condescending and it drives me nuts. I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about where you can allow people to be who they are, where they are, in this lifetime, because you understand that we’re all on this journey, and they don’t threaten you with their beliefs.

Wow, does that make sense?

Wendy  22:30

It does and the way that I visualize that is as if I am a sailor, and the winds come seriously, I always say

Clint  22:42

I’m sorry that came out of left field for me. I had no idea that was gonna have a sailor.

Wendy  22:46

I’m just saying it’s a visual for me for when I come across people like that because yes, I do know my powers and my abilities and where I want to be energetically and spiritually and emotionally. But I look at it as a sailor does to the wind or the current where you have to adjust your sails continuously. And you’re constantly thinking, How can I stay on course, my course no matter what’s going on around me? Or the people that are there or how they’re trying to impact or influence me, that I’m immune practically, where my course is still in a straight line, even though they’ve come to disrupt that. And I think that’s a personal power that you’re you’re sort of touching on where it’s knowing yourself well enough to know that you’re going to be a certain way no matter what. And that’s a choice. Ultimately, no matter how you were raised or genetically, how you’re predisposed. Everything that we’re talking about right now begins with the choice of how do you want to feel how do you want to show up? How do you want to respond to people that are trying to troll you tear you down, get you to stop believing what you’re believing. I don’t, for lack of a better word a dissenter from how you want to be anybody who tries to challenge that you already have chosen before it happens, how you’re going to respond.

Clint  24:19

I think the process has to work for each individual, because admittedly there are some people who are able to process information mentally, quicker and more thoroughly than other people. I mean, I know what it’s like to talk to somebody who’s much smarter than me. And I realized that it might be frustrating for them, when they have to re explain a concept. I know what that’s like. So I’m imagining the people that don’t have that sense of confidence that realize that they may even consider that a real defect in who they are. But there’s got to be something in every single human being That is a starting point in terms of confidence. Because I think that’s part of what we’re talking about is that sense of confidence that is unshakable. And obviously, we’re multi dimensional as human beings. And so it’s the rare individual that’s really confident about their entire existence. You know who they are. But I think that we’ve talked a number of times over the episodes about this mental muscle that we have to exercise, the spiritual muscle that needs to be kind of fed and nurtured. I said in the last episode that our first t shirt is “think big, think small, find peace”. And I think that the idea of bringing it back to the small part of what is it about me that I have great confidence in? That it’s a good thing, it’s naturally part of who I am. Because I’ve noticed people physically, you ever noticed somebody who really likes their own hair? You can just tell by the way they carry themselves in the way that my hair is awesome. Okay, let’s start with that. You’ve got great hair, but what is it inside you that is part of your personality? That is an anchor, that you can say, I believe in this about me that’s a really positive thing. I think that’s a good place for people to start. Because once they know what that confidence feels like, even if it’s something is, as what some might think is superficial as their hair, at least it’s something that makes them feel good about themselves, and they can proceed from that once spot. Does that make sense?

Wendy  26:41

It does make perfect sense and in the sense of reframing it into personal power. And we all have personal power like you say, spiritual, mental, physical, all those things, and to recognize even the smallest grain of personal power within you, and that you could take that and build upon it. It’s just like what they talk about, faith in the mustard seed where it starts out very small. And if you keep nurturing that and recognizing that and giving it some attention that it grows. And that’s the same thing with the spiritual muscle that we all have that it’s there, that spiritual power is there, and whether or not you’re blocking it or using it is up to you.

Clint  27:37

Right, and I want to make sure that we clarify, because personal power, as we’ve discussed previously, can have a dark side. There are some people that get a sense of personal power by harming other people, whether it be physical harm or emotional harm or, somebody throws a tantrum because that’s how they get stuff, you know that that’s their personal power. I think that what we’re talking about is to Begin again. It’s almost like you buy a house, but you don’t want to live in that house. So you tear it down and you build your own house from the foundation up. I think it’s similar to that kind of a process. It’s a long process. But at least if you start with a good positive first brick, then the future can actually be pretty rosy. I’m always thinking whenever we have this conversation, I always think of the person who’s based in what they consider to be science and reality and that sort of thing and don’t really want to embrace the concept of spirituality. But I’m thinking in terms of that’s basic human psychology of you find the thing inside you and every human being has this. That is not only a strength for you, but it’s a benefit to the community. Even if the something is I smile, or I opened a door for somebody, I could be Mr. grouchy face, but if I let somebody else go ahead of me at a crosswalk, then I’ve done something good for the community. Does that make sense?

Wendy  29:08

Absolutely. And I like that you pointed out that it’s this is all foundational upon positive behavior, and positive thought and positive action. Because if you’re going to create your personal power base on destruction, you’re destroying yourself and others. And so that is a very wise point to make when you’re creating your personal power, particularly your spiritual power, that you’re using it as a force for good.

Clint  29:40

Yeah, and we can dive into the interpretation of the word good, because that’s very subjective. But I think that we’re on the right path, I think bringing it back down to the very smallest part of what’s inside each individual. And starting from that, I think is a really, really really productive way to continue the conversation that You and I have been having and we will continue to have. What do you think of that?

Wendy  30:08

It’s perfect.

Clint  30:10

Wow, perfection is so hard to achieve. And yet here I’ve done it again.

Oh my gosh, that’s silly. Well, that’s the way this works everybody I’m thank you so much for joining us for the podcast. And I hope that you’ll stay with us as we continue to explore and you know what, we would love for you to join the conversation, Wendy, tell everybody how they can connect with us.

Wendy  30:32

Easiest way to connect with us is to go to spiritualcake.com. You can send us a message through the website or you can click on one of our social media icons and find us on Facebook and Instagram.

Clint  30:45

And also our email is spiritual cake [email protected] and however you would like to engage would be great because if you have something that you’d like Like us to discuss, if you have something that you’ve discovered on your own that would be a revelation to us, or whatever else it is. We would love for you to be a part of the conversation and we would really appreciate you and know that you are being welcomed with open arms. That’s it for this episode of the spiritual cake podcast. This is Clint and on behalf of Wendy. We will see you next time.