Scientists Who Believe In a Higher Power

Clint  0:00

Hey everybody, welcome to the spiritual cake podcast. We talk about anything and everything it has to do with that side of humanity we call spirituality. It’s not the mental. It’s not the emotional. It’s not the physical. It’s something else. My name is Clint hufft. And with me is Wendy Dahl. Wendy.

Wendy  0:18

Hello, there.

Clint  0:20

Hello, there. Are you doing? Hello there? Lovely.

Wendy  0:23

I’m trying to give you a bit of variety of greetings.

Clint  0:27

So friendly listener, if you’re tuning in with us for the very first time. Please understand that this is just an exploration. We’re not trying to tell you this is the way it is. This is the way it isn’t. Because Wendy and I come from relatively similar but different backgrounds. Wendy was raised Mormon, I was raised in a conservative Lutheran Church. But then in the meantime, since our childhoods, we have worked in the event industry with a lot of different philosophies. theologies, plus we also have our own explorations. And so that’s what this is. And at the end of the podcast, I will invite you to join us and give you all the ways that you can do that.

Wendy, before we started recording, I sent you a link to an interview that Joe Rogan did on his podcast with a scientist named Brian Greene. I don’t know that much about Brian Greene, but you just watched it. And so your impressions are really fresh. What did you think of that if you could just kind of describe what the conversation was, and then we’ll go from there.

Wendy  1:36

The conversation was between and you’ll have to forgive me with their names, but it was essentially with a scientist who is discussing all of existence from a science perspective, but then he was talking about a meeting where all of these scientists had gathered to talk about science and and spirituality came up. And I think one of my favorite moments of the interview was when he talked about somebody that was predominant in science had stood up and began to sing the Psalms.

Clint  2:17

A Nobel Prize winner. I think it was a Nobel Prize in science.

Wendy  2:23

Yes. And so these are people that follow a very different thought process and it’s also to establish a diversity of thought processes like we talk about, and how there is a spectrum spectrum of spirituality and how it impacts even men of science, people of science, that are focused on the tangible things of why things exist and why things work or coexist, and to have the stories of people talking about how they believe That God is involved in these things and that there’s a superior being that’s orchestrating some of these things that happen. And so of course, as soon as he talks about this person standing up and singing Psalms, that was the vision I had of this meeting. And I imagined like all these philosophers, of course, this is just my imagination, with with all these very intelligent people in the same place, and how diverse that must have been and how cool that would have been to have seen a man stand up and sing the songs. I don’t think I’ve ever even seen that at church. I mean, yes, hymns but not just somebody randomly standing up and singing them.

Clint  3:43

Well, there’s a couple ways to go with this. It’s fascinating because, we have talked in previous episodes about how there are certain things are just beyond the comprehension of a human mind. But then these are unique human minds that are able to wrap their heads around really advanced, detailed, complicated concepts in regards to the structure and what actually makes up the universe from the micro to the macro. He talked about some people think the expansion the universe is expanding right now. And he talked about what we think is that it’s expanding a lot faster than we thought it was. It was on the Joe Rogan podcast and the scientist’s name is Brian Greene. And they talked about those type of like intricacies but they also talked on a macro level in terms of of time and how time began and what was before time and if there is such a thing like that. What I like about the conference that he went to is how he was taken by surprise, because Brian Greene has the similar attitude. Okay, this is gonna sound a little grandiose on my behalf, so please forgive me. But it sounds like he’s Got the same kind of attitude that I’ve got in that he doesn’t say there is or is not a God. He’s very open if at some point the heavens part and and God reveals himself or herself or itself. But in the meantime, he’s gonna deal with what he can, kind of the tools that he has in terms of math and science and that sort of thing, which I thought was fantastic. And I also loved that he shared at this conference, one of these people that he really respected, actually came up and put his arm around Brian’s shoulders and just said, something along the lines of that’s okay, you’ll get it someday. Meaning, spirituality, meaning that he’ll be able to understand how the two concepts of spirituality or a Divine presence and hard science can coexist. Do you remember that part of it? Does that sound familiar?

Wendy  6:00

I do remember that part. And I remember feeling enthusiasm about it specifically, because even in science, there are things that they cannot explain. There are things that operate outside of the laws of science. And so just like we’re saying, seeking explanations of why we’re here and the role of spirituality in our lives. They also are looking at it from a scientific mind of, well, how do we explain that, if it falls outside of the scope of science?

Clint  6:33

The other thing I like about that scientists at that level will absolutely confess to is that the concept of “but not always”. So they’ll come up with some ssome law of physics or some law of the astrophysics or whatever it is, and they’ll explain what it is. Or maybe it’s a biological thing or whatever, that whole concept of Think Big Think small. And then they’ll say, but not always. And that must drive some people crazy. I’m thinking of students that are just tell me that what it is. It’s got to be this black and white, there’s got to be this, Come on, it’s math. It can’t be anything other than math. But yet there are these forces at play in the universe that are kind of like, their own thing. And, I just love that idea. I just love it. That everything is kind of like, I don’t know, we think it’s going to be this but maybe not. Or it is mostly that but sometimes it’s not. And that I think that’s where the What do you call that? The release? Or the where you give in to the idea of God, there’s a name for that. Do you know what I’m talking about where people have to? Like, just let go and let God only there’s an edge

Wendy  7:58

Yeah. I saw it as they were open to possibility and in a scientific mind they have to stay curious you have to be open to the possibility of things beyond current knowledge and beyond current mathematics like you say and current theories and philosophies like the human mind and human existence and belief patterns have evolved over time. And even new concepts in science have have been introduced and evolved over time and, I feel like the example that he was talking about of the meeting of the mind, so to speak, and how they celebrated the openness to other possibilities to me, I was like that had to be, I would have loved to have been there to see that. I would have loved to seen all of these people converse on that plane of possibility.

Clint  9:02

I have mixed feelings about being in that room. It’s exhilarating to think that these people who are so smart and have discovered so many things are also open to the idea of we don’t know everything. I don’t know who it was, but some respected philosopher or whatever the sign of a person’s intelligence is when they admit how much they don’t know. I like the idea that this room full of incredibly intelligent people that, quite honestly, humanity is depending on to drive forward science and technology and that sort of thing. Because it’s the theories that they come up with that will drive innovation in regards to the advancement of humanity, so to speak. So it’s a big deal. But to be in that room with people that are that smart. I would just be that little person who is afraid to make any noise. I don’t want any attention on me. I just want to be here. As these people almost like, the power of their minds in that room as a collective. You know what I mean? Do you ever get it? Do you ever get around people that you think are just so smart that you’re afraid to say anything?

Wendy  10:19

No, I’ve never I’ve never really felt fearful about saying anything, but probably because I’ve really developed the power of listening. And sometimes it’s just as powerful to listen as it is to speak. And sometimes people like that need people like us to listen

Clint  10:37

and write.

Wendy  10:38

And I’m fascinated by that. I’m fascinated by the brilliance of others in their creativity and their thought process and just to be an observer to me, I find joy in

Clint  10:50

Oh, I agree 100%. I think what I was saying is, I don’t want anything to interrupt their flow. You know, I don’t want them to have to like dumb things down. So that I can stay with them and the conversation. I don’t want that at all. This goes with almost any kind of human endeavor. If a person’s in a rhythm and they’re in a flow, then I think that’s something to be celebrated. And almost like you, this is going to be an interesting analogy. But if you see a beautiful flower, or an amazing sunrise or sunset, I almost think that I don’t need to say anything about it. I just need to absorb it in order to get the most from it. Does that make sense?

Wendy  11:35

It does. And I’ll bring that up to today’s world of putting your phone down and just enjoying the moment. You know, I used to take pictures of all of those things so that I could post them and share them with others. And then I thought Hold on one moment. Just like you said, why not just enjoy the moment.

Clint  11:52

I’m so glad you said that. I stopped that a long time ago. Well first of all, I’ve never been a person to get autographs. You know you and I both works with a lot of celebrities and sports figures or whatever it is. People that have a certain amount of celebrity status. And I have never ever wanted to take a picture with them, like can I get a picture with you? I just don’t want that. Also when I’m on vacation, I don’t really take very many pictures, because I just want the memories to be enough for me. And I never want to impose on any of these celebrities. I just like the idea of the camaraderie even if it only lasts for a few seconds. So I’m so glad to hear you say that.

The thing about taking pictures Is that you’re right, it takes you away from the moment. And I’m okay with that. I also think that that a picture doesn’t do it justice. It’s very rare. How many times have you looked at the sky? And seeing like the way the sun on the clouds or you look at a mountain and you think to yourself, that looks like a painting? That’s such a bizarre thing to say. It’s a credit to the artists are able to replicate things like that. But what does it say about just nature and the power of it? Have you ever been to the Grand Canyon?

Wendy  13:36

Not yet. No. Can you believe it?

Clint  13:40

Your family? Yes. And family and Arizona. Is that right?

Wendy  13:45

Yes, I do.

Clint  13:46

The first time we went to the Grand Canyon. They didn’t have as many safety protocols up. So there were certain places where you could actually walk out on like a precipice. Which is bizarre to think of that now, but this is back in the early 90s. And I was able to walk out on a precipice and look down into the canyon. And the power of nothing was happening. It was just this big Grand Canyon. But the power that I felt coming from it was so intense. I couldn’t believe it, and I couldn’t really understand. Where’s the power coming from? What’s the deal? It’s a big hole in the ground. Why do I feel like this? And I have a feeling that there are other things in nature that are like that, that carry so much power. What this brings me back to how when science was just how can we explain whatever this is? Well, it looks like maybe there’s a spirit in that tree or there’s a bunch of gods or there’s a unicorn that magical creatures or whatever, and we just attached some sort of story because we can’t really figure it out. And we need to give some substance to whatever this thing is we’re experiencing. That’s the way I feel when I have certain experience certain things in nature that are just so powerful. And fortunately, I have the mental process of I don’t need to explain this. I just need to feel it. Does that make sense?

Wendy  15:26

Yes, particularly when I’m down at the beach and I’m observing sunset sometimes, I think to myself, this all can’t possibly fit into one frame. Know that the world around you and sometimes the sunset is even more glorious behind you than it is looking into the sun.

Clint  15:47

When I was playing nightclubs, there were many times during the summer where I would be on my way to work as the sun was setting. And I remember thinking that the clouds and how they were never the same, they were never exactly the same twice. And there was a song that was popular at that time, and it was, “everything must change, nothing stays the same”. And they were talking about other things, human relationships. But I would think of that song when I would look up at the sky and realize that every single day there was a new painting in the sky, there was something new, and then that goes for flowers and whatever that’s in nature, and how it’s constantly evolving and changing and growing and shrinking or whatever is the cycle of the life of that particular thing. And, what a glorious gift that is for us to be able to observe that. And isn’t it a blessing that that we’re wired to feel that sort of all in it when it comes to nature? How do you explain that? How is it that that we love babies, and we love nature? How does that work?

Wendy  17:00

I’m going to answer your question the question. Ah, isn’t it to prove that we’re all connected?

Clint  17:10

Oh, okay. Okay, flesh that out a little bit. Explain that.

Wendy  17:14

Okay, so when I think of myself participating in a sunset and I say participating in a sunset because I’m they’re enjoying it. It’s there doing what it does. When it comes to babies and new life and how fascinating that is and seeing that happen and holding it in your arms and thinking moments ago, you weren’t even in this world. I mean, in my experience, you were in my belly a moment ago, and here you are breathing, and the miracle of that, and, even on the other end when I was there when my grandfather died. Watching the miracle right before he passed over, or passed. And, then as odd as that sounds and as sad as it is when passing happens, but the joy in that moment of knowing that he was free from his physical ailments. There’s an image that I think of right now where it was a photographer friend of mine, who I guess this must have been like, maybe even 10 years ago. And I still remember the image as if it were something that that I just saw that she was having issues with her pregnancy where she was going to lose the baby. And she was in the center of this image, and there were probably 100 women around her, and they were praying for her, and they were all touching each other and it was the power of connectedness. Sorry, I’m getting choked up thinking about it. It was the power of connectedness and by a miracle, this baby was born just fine. She finished everything. Throughout her pregnancy. So to me, that image represents a physical picture of how we are as humans, either with other humans or even with nature that we draw upon each other, that we’re all coexisting and that there is power, when there are more of us together focused on one thing, and that as we’re enjoying life and experiencing life together, that it becomes more powerful and more enjoyable.

Clint  19:39

I think that we’ve touched on something that’s going to take a whole episode all by itself. That is the collective. That is the the power some people depend on whether it’s a positive or a negative result, from people that come together and are of like mind. There is a real power in that that’s wired into us when we have a collective if it goes south, it’s a mob mentality. If it goes towards the miracle that you just described, I don’t even know if there’s a word for that. But that’s built into us. And it touches on a realm that is beyond just the physical, intellectual. There’s something else at play there. And so I think in a future episode, we’ll dive a little bit more into that. Is that cool?

Wendy  20:23

I’d love that.

Clint  20:24

Yeah. Yeah, it’s amazing. You know, I, there’s the thing that I’ve said on more than one occasion, which is, a lot of what we take for pleasure is really just the absence of pain. Which means that just life in general, is just a miracle. It’s just a phenomenal thing. That is almost always enjoyable. It’s only when something gets in the way of that, that we experience pain, but just being alive generally speaking as human beings is is enjoyable. Does that make sense?

Wendy  21:01

Yes, it’s it is a joyful experience to be with other people. I believe that is part of our intuition as humans is to be with others.

Clint  21:10

I think it’s part of we have to exist as a tribe. But then again, as you know, during our conversations, I always try to think of it in terms of the person who doesn’t consider themselves spiritual and are looking for the practical explanations for whatever we talk about. And I think it all kind of coexist. I really do. Yeah, I’m excited about that conversation about what it is and when human beings form a collective and the power that comes with that. And the mystic, it’s a mysticism. I think that that can be tapped into. That definitely goes into the spiritual realm. Oh, my gracious. Well, it’s weird because we’ve had a wonderful conversation, but it feels like we’re on the precipice of the next thing. Do you feel that?

Wendy  21:54

In general, most of our conversations begin and end that way.

Clint  22:00

This is just the conversation. The only thing that that limits us is the amount of time. It reminds me of what Lorne Michaels, the executive producer of Saturday Night Live says is that we don’t put on a show when it’s ready. We put on a show because it’s 11:30 on Saturday, and we’ve got to get a show on. And that’s the way I feel about this. We don’t end because we’re done talking. We end because we’ve run out of time, and we’re gonna continue the conversation to the next episode. And we really want everybody who listens to be a part of the conversation and Wendy if you don’t mind, tell everybody how they can contact us.

Wendy  22:38

The easiest way to contact us is to go to spiritualcake.com and there is a Contact Us tab in the main menu or you can shoot us an email and join in the conversation. You can also comment on the episodes that we’ve posted and join the conversation that way or you can connect with us on Social media by clicking any one of the social media icons.

Clint  23:05

Right? You can also email us [email protected]. And I check it every single day and we will respond. Tell us what you want us to talk about. Or tell us a story about something that’s happened to you. And, and we really want this to we want you to understand that we welcome you with open arms. That’s it for this episode of the spiritual cake podcast. This is Clint and on behalf of Wendy, we will see you next time.