How people get emotional power. Shy Reality TV wants turmoil. The wedding villain is usually male. What memories do you want to create? Being “in the moment” is a double-edged sword. What to do when someone is on a rant.
Spiritual Cake Podcast: Spiritual Cake Podcast 6 on Apple Podcasts
How people get emotional power. Shy Reality TV wants turmoil. The wedding villain is usually male. What memories do you want to create? Being “in the moment” is a double-edged sword. What to do when someone is on a rant.
Clint 0:01
Hi, everybody, welcome to Spiritual Cake, a conversation about things of the Spirit. And all that means in terms of the human condition. My name is Clint Hufft. And with me is Wendy Dahl, Wendy.
Wendy
Hello.
Clint
Now, for those of you listening to us for the very first time, neither Wendy or I are officially religious clergy people. We’re two people with a lot of curiosity. And we started a conversation that I don’t think will ever end because there’s so many variations to the spiritual world. And that’s why we came up with the idea of Spiritual Cake because a cake has layers, and Wendy doesn’t like onions.
Wendy 0:46
How did you know that about me?
Clint 0:47
You told me when we were trying to figure out the name of the podcast, I said, Well, I think there’s layers so how about onion? And you said, I don’t like onions.
Wendy 0:57
I mean, I do to a point but not really. No.
Clint 1:00
Yeah. And then I said, well, what else has layers? A cake? How about Spiritual Cake and a podcast was born. There you go. Alright. So before we hit the record button, you said something that I thought was really cool and a good jumping off point. Say what you said.
Wendy 1:18
Well, I feel like right now we’re all in turmoil where we’re looking at the world around us. And we don’t know necessarily how to move forward with all of the uncertainty, all of the new knowledge that we have all of the heavy feelings that we’re all carrying with us right now. I’m seeing people trying to come out of it, but they’re just really not sure how.
Clint 1:45
The way you’re saying that makes me think that you have some suggestions.
Wendy 1:52
Well, I always have suggestions on how to pull out have a hard time.
Clint 1:58
You know, wait a minute. We need to give a little back story. Because you’re starting this whole business about happiness. So tell everybody about that.
Wendy 2:05
Okay, so my normal platform is about Creating Happiness. And the premise of Creating Happiness is that we are all architects of our lives. And that if we want to be happy, or we want others to be happy, or we want to be in a happier state, that all we have to do is create it.
We have to create the feeling. And so sometimes creating it sounds like it’s always work. But if you really think down to the fundamentals of happiness, happiness is a state of being. It’s a state of mind. It’s a state of doing. And so when you’re stuck in it kind of creating happiness is essentially resilience through challenging times. It’s not to say that you will always be happy and that that is the only state you will live in, because that is just not human, it’s untrue. And so creating happiness gives you that ability to say I am aware of how I’m feeling right now. And if I don’t like how I’m feeling I can change that.
Clint 3:07
I have a theory about that. I have a theory about people choosing happiness. Okay, here we go. Are you ready?
Wendy
Ready.
Clint
Okay. I think people choose to behave in a certain way, or hang on to a particular emotion, because they’re getting something from it. So let me explain. Decades ago, I was in couples therapy, not with my wife, although we have gone to therapy, and I think it’s fantastic. But no with a previous relationship, we were talking to a therapist, and it came up in the conversation of a friend of mine that had anger issues. And I said it just seemed like, the best gift I could give him would be one big pillow that he could just pound anytime he got angry. And the therapist said, well, the way we approach it professionally, from my school of therapy is: what are you getting from that? Oh my gosh, it’s like the heavens opened up. My mind was expanded. And I thought oh my Yes, that’s absolutely right. And I began to look for it. You know how when you when you are looking for a car or you think that a yellow Volkswagen Beetle is really cute, and all of a sudden you see five of them are on the street. They were always there. You just never were like looking for them?
Wendy 4:29
Yes.
Clint 4:30
So then I started looking at people’s behaviors and how some people will hang on to being upset or hang on to what do you call it? religious outrageousness or what do you call it? Righteous indignation. That’s right. Righteous indignation. Right. And, and then my proof is one very simple phrase. Are you ready? This is my proof that people love to hang on to these emotions. Reality TV.
Wendy 4:56
Oh, heavens. Yes.
Clint 5:00
Reality TV, what’s the deal? Okay, so I’ve been fortunate to do a bunch of television and I was on this one program where it was called Hitched or Ditched and it was on The CW network. And it was in 2008. We only did six episodes, but we got pretty good ratings for the CW which is pretty neat. Anyway, the premise was couples could audition to be on television or something. I forget exactly what it was. But they were looking specifically for couples that have been engaged for a long time. But weren’t planning on getting married right away, right? In other words, they were together, or they were engaged for a long time or something like that anyway. And so they would pick out the couples, the couples had no idea what was really happening, and then they would knock on their door with a camera crew. And they would say, Hi, you filled out the application for da da da. And we noticed that you’ve been engaged for a long time, but you haven’t set a date. And we’re curious as to why. And we’re going to hang out with you and your friends and your family for a week. And at the end of the week, we’re going to have a wedding. And we will pay for everything. And then you get to decide if you want to get married or not. And, and off they went.
And at the end of the week, they indeed had a wedding ceremony and the couple was contractually obligated to put on the clothes and walk up the aisle. But then they got to decide if they want to really get married to each other, or they really don’t, because they were already engaged. Right. And so there were six episodes. Four couples got married and two did not. The reason I tell you that story is after the first episode, I did what I always do with every one of my wedding couples.
I said this to the producer when he first reached out to me to see if I would do it. I said, are they really getting married? Or is this like a trick thing? He says, No, they’re really getting married. I said, Okay. All right. If it’s legit, I’m in. So I go to the couple before the the ceremony and I’m talking to them, and I’m doing what I normally do, and everything goes fine, and they get married, because they come up the aisle and I say to them, Okay, I’m gonna ask you the question, do you take this person to be …? And so after that, the production took a month off, because it was right at the beginning of December. So they took a month off to retool and get ready for the new year.
We flew to different cities around the country and at the next occasion, the producer came up to me in the hotel hallway and he says, I got to talk to you. I said, Okay, and I’m thinking, I’m fired. That’s it. You know what I mean? But then I also thought, well, they flew me to Chicago, so maybe I’m not getting fired, so Okay. He said, we can’t have you talk to the couple before the ceremony. I said, Okay. Why? He said, because you just have this quality where you calm people down. Like right now I’m talking to you and I’m feeling more relaxed. And he said, that doesn’t make for the kind of television we want. We want people to be kind of like agitated and have that energy and get nervous and, and that kind of stuff.
Now, keep in mind, I didn’t really talk to everybody the way I normally do like, you go and you meet the family. And this is a very unique situation. The way I also work is that every couple that I marry, normally they get involved, and they build their own ceremony, and it’s a very interactive situation. But with this, I did the ceremony and it was just my ballgame. So I thought that was interesting. And I learned from that two things I learned, oh, I guess I have that quality. And the other thing I learned was, you’re right, if you want a particular type of television, you have to set the kind of the environment, especially if it’s supposed to be quote, reality, unquote, which by the way, not completely. So what do you think of that?
Wendy 8:53
You know, I agree with that. And I feel like there’s other shows out there that depicted weddings in that same manner. Bridezilla. And I feel like just by that show Bridezilla, it kind of gave people the green light to be angsty and dramatic and to you know take on a persona on their wedding day that you know I even had. I’ve only ever had one bridezilla. Normally it’s a groomzilla or a dadzilla or the zilla has come in other forms where it’s a vendor or a guest.
Clint 9:27
Okay, wait a minute. That’s interesting.
Wendy 9:31
Yeah, normally it’s on the male side. I always attribute it to the power of the purse, whoever is paying for things is the person that feels entitled to complain the entire day and make everybody feel miserable. But, it’s not always the client. Sometimes it’s a vendor or a guest. And so every wedding I’ve ever done has always had a zilla in some form. And so the key is to be able to identify who’s going to be the instigator or the Zilla that day, and what their impact is and to minimize that.
You can take that same lesson and apply it into your own life and think, okay, so there are people that exist to create anxiety. And there are people that band together to make anxiety worse. And so in my perspective, same as you were, I have that same calming effect around, when people around me they’re like, Oh, my gosh, you just feel so good. I can’t wait to see you again. You know, and I love that and I love that I figured out psychologically how to unnerve people to the point where they feel safe. And they feel like they don’t have to show up with the anger and angst and create drama. Where that isn’t something that is beneficial in the scenario.
I mean, we do weddings all the time, and there’s heightened tensions. Because everyone wants perfection. And so I think the same goes you know, with with carrying on that feeling of is it really worth it to carry that feeling of anxiety because people there is power in feeling angry and creating drama and to pushing that feeling out towards other people and seeing what their response is. I almost liken it to a feeling of power, where in order to feel powerful, there has to be this air of anger. And it can’t be.
When I went to college I learned about servant leadership and that the gentle nature of a leader could actually have more impact than the controlling nature of a leader. And I think that that is something that is served me well both in my personal life, my relationships with other people. And in my business, and to know that the true nature of a person who wants power has a choice. How are you going to obtain that? And how are you going to move forward?
And so, talking about the TV shows that want to create that feeling. I think, yes, in the entertainment world, I could see where it has value. But in real life, when you’re walking away from a situation and you’re thinking, how do I want to feel at the end of this? What do I want my memories to be? And shaping your reality based on how you want to leave your mark or how you want people to remember you or how you want to have the memories? Like how do you want to look back on your wedding day and think, Oh, my gosh, I was such a jerk to everybody. And have other people have that perception of you. I just don’t know that that’s necessarily where most people’s hearts truly lie.
Clint 13:00
I think it’s part of the human condition, that dichotomy between caught in the moment, whether it be positive or negative. Caught in the moment and also long range thinking. What are the ramifications of what I’m doing right this very second. And that kind of the moment thing. It’s interesting. Most of the Scriptures talk about being in the moment. You know what I mean? They talk about about calming the mind, the chatter of the mind. Some of them call it the monkey mind. But I always look for the common thread in everything. When I study a lot of one subject. It’s kind of silly.
I’ve been in the fitness industry for a long time. And so people will come up with new diets or new training regimens and stuff like that. And I’m looking for the common thread. And by the way, it’s eat your green vegetables, just so you know.
And so, in regards to the Scriptures, it seems that there always is some sort of message or teaching that talks about calming down, and being in the moment, in order to have a better experience in this life, this human life. But also I think, because we are human beings and we are multi layered there also can have a negative effect if you get in the moment, because you’re relishing the power you feel from the drama you’re creating. You know what I mean? There’s like a dark side to that being in the moment that I haven’t heard anybody talk about. There is value in being in the moment in regards to appreciating the good things and really listening to somebody and accepting.
A lot of people who are in the arts, find great productivity in shutting out the noise and being in the moment. But what we’re talking about are people that may not have that much experience in their life just in general.
Okay, back in, I don’t know, say like the 70s. Somebody came up with the idea of the inner child. You ever heard of that?
Wendy 15:05
I have actually, isn’t there a book about that?
Clint 15:07
Oh, yeah, yeah, it was a thing for a while. You know how pop psychology will go through phases, and there’ll be buzzwords and stuff like that. I’m old enough to remember when the inner child was a thing. Then I had my own kid, my first kid. There’s a six year difference between my two kids. So when my daughter was in daycare, we put her in there when she was like two and it was awesome and 2, 3, 4. And then she moves on to pre K.
But I looked around the playground at this place, a lot of kids all of that age. And it hit me like a ton of bricks. Oh my gosh, every adult I know, is really still four years old. Because of just the basic impulses and behaviors.
But then recently it’s been come to my attention that there actually are two ages where we get stuck. There’s four years old, and there’s high school. And now we’re talking about the drama that seems to proliferate, sometimes between people, where they’re looking at each other and roll their eyes and they’ll say, oh here comes so and so. So they have this collective understanding of whatever is supposed to be the drama. And, I noticed that it’s in high school. Now my daughter is in college, and she’s telling me stories of interacting, and then I listened and then you watch reality TV, and then I listened to people talk in different groups and, it kind of sneaks in. It’s almost like a can’t be helped. Where that inner interpersonal interaction drama-culture can almost push itself just because it’s a human condition.
And it takes mental exercise to recognize it and be able to take a breath and say, we don’t have to do that right now.
Wendy
Exactly.
Clint
Whether it be the end of ritual or a part of a group and definitely we’re going through some social upheaval right now, where certain people that think we’re part of a group, And one person is really acting badly and the other people don’t step up and say, you can’t do that. Which reminds me that I saw another video of a Los Angeles police officer losing his cool and and started to physically assault this guy that he was going to handcuff. And the guy is saying What are you doing? What are you doing? Stop it! And his partner and then another car pulls up for backup and these three police officers go up to the guy that’s just losing himself and really being aggressive and violent. And they said hey, chill, man, chill, chill, chill, chill and tried to separate him from from the person that he was attacking.
But I you could hear it. It was chest cameras and all that stuff, which thank goodness we have all that now. And you could just hear them say, Hey, hey, chill, chill. They couldn’t come in and say, hey, you’re freaking out, step away, get out of there, stop it. That’s not the way they would talk to each other. They had to have that presence of mind and be able to, try to calm the person down because it was obvious that the pressure had just gotten to him and he was just out of his mind. It was really scary and sad and all those things you’re supposed to feel when you see something like that. Right?
What is that presence of mind? That’s where the scriptures. My understanding or my exploration of the Scriptures is that they, how can I put this, they’ll put out a concept. But I think it needs to be kind of stirred with the entire human experience as opposed to just this one thing that is going to make us feel, what do they call it, warm fuzzies.
Wendy 18:53
Mm hmm.
Clint 18:54
You know, I think it’s important and I didn’t until right this conversation. That being in the moment has positive and negative connotations. Does that make sense?
Wendy 19:04
It does. Absolutely.
It does. And I feel like sometimes it’s what are you letting guide you in that moment? Is it emotion? Or is it thought?
Clint 19:15
Well, the thing is, is that I think if you’re really in the moment, you’re not being guided, as you’re trapped. Does that make sense? Because the word guided means to me that there is something that’s pulling you along. Like you’re moving from one to another. “Guided” meaning there is some sort of a journey or traveling, whereas what we’re discussing is you’re stuck. You know what I mean? And, somebody has to bring it to your attention. Sometimes that’s all it takes, is, hey, chill, chill. Or what are you doing? Or, huh, is that the best way? Or, something like that.
My daughter and the way she interacts with her friends, we have long conversations. There are a lot of silver linings to this pandemic and quarantine. I’ve had great conversations with my kids. It’s awesome. Anyway, how she recognizes what’s happening in a conversation with a friend, if a friend is being dramatic or going off on their own tangent, whatever. The words that you use.
You could probably address this a lot better than I can.
The words that you use in order to bring somebody down from their emotional drama that they are reveling in. And how do you because otherwise? When I was in Sunday school, one of my Sunday school teachers was a successful businessman sales. Mr. Pugh. Oh, it’s so funny. I haven’t thought of him in so long. He always looked really sharp. His hair was silver and slicked it back and he was sharp. He taught Sunday school. He said something about when you’re talking to somebody who’s angry, you have to let them just talk. Because if you interrupt them to make a point or a clarification, they’re already angry, and they’re just going to get more angry because you interrupted them. The best thing you can do is just let them talk.
Now, just imagine saying that to somebody who’s 10 years old. And it’s stuck, right? It’s stuck to me. And ever since then, I’ve been very aware that that’s the best way to handle it without interrupting. And there are so many times where I am triggered when I’m listening to somebody going on a rant, and I want to correct them because they have a false premise or they’re making assumptions and da da da, but I can’t. I have to let them go until there’s the right time to relax. And there have been even times where somebody is really angry. And I let them get it all out and I’ll say can I talk to you? With my kids, I’ll say, “Are you listening?” Just just to make sure that if we’re going to go forward, there’s going to be some sort of an intellectual discourse as opposed to you just putting up a huge wall. So, where language is important? Go ahead.
Wendy 22:13
I agree. I was gonna say in that moment the person that’s angry, I even find myself this way, when I get upset about things. And I think, Okay, in this moment, and so this is the difference between being self aware and having other people being aware around you. For me, I’ve always chosen before I react to something, and I’m not perfect at it. And I’m not saying that I’ll ever be perfect at it. But I always have a choice of my response. And so, you know, I was actually called out last week where, you know, my platform is creating happiness. And people are now angry at other people on social media that aren’t joining in this conversation. And, you know, if you’re not saying anything, and so from my perspective, I thought, you know, this is not my Fight. Where I have my perspective is I come to every relationship with love. I mean, we’ve talked about it where my best friend and, and grade school was. She was Persian, and I love her. And it you know, there is no and even now I do multicultural weddings. For me, that whole platform of discussion that’s going on right now. I don’t feel the same. Because I look at other people like I love them. And I’m not looking at all of these things that they’re thinking about are not even present in my mind.
Clint 23:35
And right, but the issue I think, that conversation,
Wendy 23:38
I didn’t feel right, because I would have brought love into the conversation which I in fact did. And and I don’t know if you saw my post or not, but I was talking about love and light. And people started the argument to my posts, which came from Martin Luther King Jr. and they started this whole hateful thing underneath it and I just said you know what, you guys You need to take this to your own feeds. If you’re not going to support loving light, I don’t need that argument here. And at first I made a comment and people were still ignoring it. And then I put in my post update, please do not take away from this message because this is my message. So it’s interesting to see where I had thought fully come into the conversation with my message, that it wasn’t good enough for other people. And I thought, hmm, how can I moving forward be better at helping others in their pain?
Clint 24:39
Yes, but it’s that whole okay? Not but because that would, okay, that’s a very that’s the wrong word to use sometimes, but which because it means that what you just said isn’t valid, and I don’t mean that at all. I always try to try to look at the entire picture to the best of my ability. And, and I we’ve already talked about how that Some people just need to be outraged right now, they need to do that. And then other people will jump on Oh boy, you’re outraged Me too, you know, that kind of thing.
Wendy 25:07
And there’s power in that.
Clint 25:09
There is power in that now, what they’re outraged about is valid. However, I think it takes mental discipline to break it down to say, okay, where is the actual problem? And what are the possible solutions to the actual problem? But the thing is about humanity is that a lot of dust gets stirred up. There’s this whole brouhaha, this whole turmoil and it just has to calm down. It’s like that salesman guy Sunday school teacher said, you have to let people just blow out all that steam and just get it all out. I think that also is understanding the playground. And I mean that literally, if you go back to a certain age group, they’re not able to process certain concepts on your level. If I’m looking at the sandbox at an elementary school or whatever is the right age, I realized that communicating with them is going to be a different process than communicating to doctoral candidates.
And so, with that in mind, if you look at society, en masse, and there’s millions and millions and millions of people.
I always thought like it was like an anthill, where we’re all designed differently, but we fall into basic categories. And there are worker bees, and there are honey bees, and there’s the queen, and so on. And I think most of us, just for humanity to survive, on a tribal level, most of us are designed to be worker bees. And complex thought, and the mental discipline it takes to explore different philosophies or theologies isn’t part of our makeup. Generally speaking, it takes mental discipline, right?
Now we go back to how we started the conversation because we’re almost out of time. It’s almost a spiritual exercise to be able to look at somebody and appreciate who they are just because of who they are. Not what they’re caught up in at the moment.
Wendy 27:21
Exactly.
Clint 27:22
And if you allow them, just to get rid of that anger that they have in their bodies, just let it all out, from a very calm, loving, peaceful, whatever. And then on social media, I don’t know people are just gonna freak out because they’re just looking for any excuse.
Wendy 27:41
Yeah, but I like your your take on it. Like you were saying with your daughter where you listened. And I’ve been listening, and I’ve been watching and I’ve been feeling all the sadness and the pain and the sorrow and wishing for a better reality. I’ve been doing all of those things, but I like how you said to your daughter where it was like, Okay, can we talk now? I feel like eventually we’re going to reach that point. And there has to be people out there that are going to come into the conversation with that nurturing spirit, saying, I see you.
Clint 28:20
Yes. And that goes back to the whole anthill honeybee scenario, right? So as human beings, a lot of us are worker bees, and a lot of us just have a certain mental capacity or emotional capacity. How do we cope with this thing that we’re feeling that’s so strong? And then you see a lot of different people, especially social media now gives people an outlet to kind of lash out. But what rises to the top are the people that are thinking more clear headed have had an opportunity to analyze the data and be able to start looking for solutions and they’re respected or somebody that the the worker bees respect begins to listen to this person. It’s like the cool kid in high school. If the cool kid decides that there’s a new hip phrase, and everybody else is going to start saying that phrase so if the if the cool kids, so to speak, are now paying attention to people that are offering logical solutions, then then we’re going to see that opening up, but it just takes time.
Wendy 29:20
Yes, for sure.
Clint 29:24
Man,
Wendy 29:25
okay, conversation.
Clint 29:26
I agree. Every single episode. We have great conversations. This is awesome. Well, okay, so Wendy, I did I hear you say that you’re working on the website, and it’s almost up or what’s the deal?
Wendy 29:36
Yes, I’m doing.
I feel like sometimes businesses could do a better job of pointing you in the right direction and you want to do and making you search for it. Okay, we’ll get there. By the end of today, we’re going to be up.
Clint 29:53
Oh, excellent. Okay. And that spiritualcake.com Yes. Wonder. Well, there you go, everybody, and then eventually we We get all that up and running in our social media and all that kind of stuff. When we have that all like the way it’s supposed to be. We will invite you into the conversation. I’ve already invited you into the conversation. I just don’t have a way for us to communicate.
But we’ll get that all page. All the Facebook pages up.
Wendy 30:15
Oh, yes, it’s been up so please come to spiritual cave.
Clint 30:20
Yeah, excellent. Fantastico. Alright, that is it for this episode of Spiritual Cake. This is Clint and on behalf of Wendy, we will see you next time.
