How Can Objects Have a Spiritual Connection?

Hi, everybody, welcome to the spiritual cake podcast. We talk about everything that could be considered of the spiritual realm. You know the things that are beyond the normal, physical, mental or emotional, that spiritual thing that forever and ever and ever human beings have been trying to figure out. My name is Clint Hufft. And with me is Wendy Dahl, Wendy.

Wendy  0:23

Hi, Clint.

Clint  0:36

Oh, I could tell you you thought really hard about that.

Okay, if you’re joining us for the very first time, please understand that neither Wendy nor I are ordained clergy. But we are incredibly curious and we do really find joy in doing research and the curiosity that comes with everything that would be considered of the spiritual realm. And we really invite you to join in on our conversation. At the end of the episode, we’ll give you all the ways that you can contact us.

Wendy, I had something that struck me out of the clear blue, which is one of the things that I love about just being open to whatever. I’m watching a movie. And a guy has lost his one of his parents or his wife, I don’t know, he lost somebody. And he goes to the cemetery, and there’s a gravestone and he reaches out and touches the gravestone. And he felt like he was talking to, you’ve seen people in the movies where they go to the grave site, and they’ll talk to the person, which I think is incredibly healthy. I really do. You know, psychiatrists forever have done role playing where somebody has to find some sort of closure with somebody who has died. But what I thought was interesting is I’ve had that experience, where you go to a grave site or you touch a thing that maybe was left behind by somebody. And you feel a connection. First of all, do you see what I’m talking about?

Wendy  2:07

I do, I do. I would say I would have had that experience more with my grandpa than anyone else.

Clint  2:14

What was the thing that was the trigger or the conduit?

Wendy  2:20

There were a few things that he left for each of his grandchildren. So my grandpa was notoriously known for his bright colored glasses. When he was alive, in the 50s and 60s, he always had green or turquoise, just interesting frames, and then ties. He was the superintendent of the school district here. So even on a Saturday when he was hanging out at home, I remember him always wearing a loose neck tie. And so I came across my little box from him and it was like Grandpa was there. It was really cool.

Clint  2:59

Isn’t it Fascinating. And what is that, do you think? I mean, because that does seem to be like a spiritual connection because we’re talking about somebody who has passed on. Right? And my mom had an interesting take on that, that we’ll get to in just a second but I want to explore how such a physical thing can make us feel connected to somebody spiritually. What do you think that’s all about?

Wendy  3:25

You know, aside from it being a triggered memory, I almost feel like it’s a sense of them. I remember when I was holding his tie and his glasses and I just felt like, Oh, this was part of Grandpa and even talking about it right now. I feel like that sensation of warmth and joy and remembering all of the good times that I had as a little girl at his house.

Clint  3:56

It’s an unnatural thing. I don’t know exactly how? Well I get it, I guess, maybe one of the definitions of something spiritual is something that we can’t explain. I don’t know.

Wendy  4:10

Exactly, other than using the word connection, like you just feel connected. And so whether it’s a memory, you’re connected with a feeling, you’re connected with a spiritual sensation where you feel their presence. You’re right. Part of spirituality is unexplainable,

Clint  4:27

But it feels so strong. That’s the thing that struck me. I mean, I’m just watching a movie, and I just felt that connection, right? He’s playing a role. Nobody really is there. It’s a set. But it just struck me that I have felt that kind of thing. And I’m not really the kind of person that believes that the person’s spirit is still there.

Okay, now I’m going to get into the mom thing. I was raised Lutheran, and she was very, very, very, very, very deeply spiritual. She was in a structure, a religious structure. It was the Lutheran. It was the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod, which is really kind of old school conservative. She liked that structure, and she was always in it. But she had a side to her that I didn’t realize. It came out, like in conversation, that she was a mystic. That’s the way I describe it. Because she had this connection to God, that went beyond what normal people go through. She prayed, she sang, she had all that kind of stuff. But then there were moments where it slipped through the cracks. She didn’t reveal it to anybody necessarily. It wasn’t something that she wore on her sleeve. But it was a thing that she just felt like this really close personal connection to God her entire life. And so that meant that when she reached the end of her life, I didn’t feel anything other than pride, because she still had all her faculties. She was in the hospital, she looked at me and she said, I think my body’s shutting down. And she was just ready. You know, there wasn’t that normal thing that you see a lot of other people experience the fear and all that kind of stuff. Now, the reason I explained that about my mom is she was really adamant about not wanting to hold anybody who dies, not wanting to hold their spirit back. You know, like, stay with me, be with me. I still feel your presence. She didn’t want to have anything to do with that. She wanted whoever her loved one was that had died for them to move on. Go ahead, I’m fine. Everything’s okay. Just move on. Because that’s what you’re supposed to do. She didn’t want to have that sense of holding anybody back. Does that make sense?

Wendy  7:03

Perfect sense. Yes.

Clint  7:05

Now, the reason that I think that there’s a connection here between a physical thing that we feel connected to somebody who has passed on, and the idea that there is a next thing when you move beyond, when you die, you and I agree that we do feel that there’s a consciousness that goes to wherever the next thing is. I don’t feel like like I can, okay, this is where language kind of fails me a little bit. I don’t want to be responsible for anybody being held back. And I am of the opinion and I have said this at many of the funerals that I’ve officiated that when a person is no longer encumbered by their body, the spirit is limitless and free. So that’s a big statement right there. What do you think of that?

Wendy  8:06

I truly believe in that. I feel like obviously, none of us can really explain perfectly what happens next. But I feel like universally there is that freedom to, whether it’s to move into another state whether people that believe in heaven, like I do, where you’re ascended to heaven. And other people believe that you’re reincarnated, that you would ascend to your next generation of yourself. Whatever it is, it’s the freedom to move from your physical form into the next form.

Clint  8:46

It’s so challenging to not put human borders or parameters around something that is beyond a human experience,

Wendy  8:57

Rght? because like you said, words fail. And even to describe from my perspective, what I believe would happen next. I don’t know that it could be perfectly explained.

Clint  9:07

Well, because how can you explain something when, like you just admitted, you don’t really know. Right?

At some point in history, religious history, I guess specifically Christian, the idea that in heaven, the streets are paved with gold and whatever else. Oh, which leads me to one of my favorite stories of all time. My father, when he met my mom, my father was raised First Baptist in Missouri. And he also was a Mason. Well, in the Lutheran Church, and I don’t know why, but that doesn’t work. Apparently, there’s something in the Mason creed that doesn’t jive with what the Lutherans Missouri synod thinks is appropriate or whatever. So he gave all that up and he went to church with mom and became Lutheran. But there was a story that he loved to tell you’re gonna get a kick out of it.

Wendy  10:08

I’m so curious.

Clint  10:09

It’s a joke. Meaning it’s literally is a joke. Okay, here’s the way it works. A guy dies and he goes to heaven. And St. Peter meets him and says welcome. You’re gonna love this place. It’s heaven. And so let me show you around. And so he starts to give them a tour. And he says there’s the pool, you can swim as long as you want to. You can hold your breath as long as you want. The water is always the perfect temperature. That’s heaven’s pool. Here’s the cafeteria. You can eat whatever you want. You can have as much as you want. It always tastes incredibly well. You’ll never get full or sick. It’s heaven’s cafeteria. And then they’re going down the hallway and everything is heaven, right? Everything is just perfect. And the guy’s feeling great. And then St. Peter stops for a second. He says “All right, now we’re gonna go down this hallway. And if you would please hold your questions until we get all the way to the end. Then we’ll resume the tour.” And the guy says, okay, so they turn the corner, and there’s a big door and you look inside, and there’s a huge room, and it’s filled with all kinds of people. And they seem to be having a great time. But St. Peter just keeps walking. And they get all the way to the end of the hallway, and they’re past that room. And then St. Peter resumes the tour. Now over here is and the guy says, Wait, wait, wait, St. Peter, what’s the deal with that big room? Who are those people? And St. Peter gives a little chuckle. He says, “Oh, those are the Lutherans. They think they’re the only ones up here and we don’t want to spoil it for them.”

Wendy  11:34

It’s terrible.

Clint  11:35

And then my dad would laugh and laugh and laugh.

Wendy  11:38

Oh, man,

Clint  11:39

You know, I get it. And you can substitute any category of religious dogma there. They think they’re the only ones up here. And the joke works. I just love that whole thing. But it’s the whole idea of heaven being this and the pearly gates and all that kind of stuff. And here’s the thing. It could be like that. I don’t know. I mean anything is possible.

Wendy  12:11

Right and that’s where I feel like faith kind of aligned you with the belief system that you’ve incorporated into your sense of being and if you believe that Paradise is next and believe it 100% and go with that. If you’re unsure of what you believe I would consider learning about all kinds of things. I’m doing a lot of Muslim weddings. I’ve learned a lot about how they believe their afterlife is. Same with Hindus. It’s fascinating to me that everybody has a different sense of Paradise.

I actually had breakfast with a friend of mine this weekend and I asked them I said, hey, do you believe in God? And they said, Oh, well, I believe in something and I thought, well, then maybe you should decide what you believe. You know, if it’s this big question and it’s something that’s holding you back from progressing forward or finding joy, whatever it is. Maybe you should focus a little bit more effort on that to discover what you believe is true for you.

Clint  13:25

Well, if there’s a there’s a blockage, like for instance, say for your friend, if there’s a blockage in terms of finding peace, with not only living this life, but not being worried about death, you know what I mean? Bill Maher is a guy on TV and he is very much an atheist. I mean, he’s just very clear about that. He’s very comfortable with saying that he’s an atheist. However, he says that when people say they’re not religious, they’re spiritual, he’s not really sure what that means. What He’s defined it for himself is that they’re not afraid of dying. And I know for a fact that not everybody falls into that category. And I don’t know if that’s my definition of what’s being spiritual but he says that death terrifies him. And I understand that because I went through a phase where I had to kind of come to terms or wrestle with the idea of mortality and death. And what is beyond that. Because just because you’re raised in a system, you don’t necessarily really buy in. That’s my whole thing about there’s as many religions as there are people on the face of the earth. I know that there’s a bunch of people that will go to a church or a temple or whatever, and they like the sense of community, but inside, internally, how they’re processing their own spirituality could be 180 degrees different than what the dogma is stating for that particular organization. You know, I got no problem with that. I have no problem that if somebody can go to a thing and profess to be this or that or whatever and inside they don’t necessarily agree with all of that, I don’t care. If what it does is it allows them to follow the rules of society where you get along with people. And then also have that feeling of loving kindness and whatever they’re going through, it generates that, it encourages that of loving kindness to other people. Plus, it gives them a sense of peace on all the different levels. No, maybe not everything but you know, certainly then I it doesn’t make any difference to me what building they’re in, or what the proclaimed dogma is. What do you think of that?

Wendy  15:52

I agree with that. I like the loving kindness perspective of organized religion where you see groups of people helping each other, deepening their relationship with their Higher Being, and connecting more with each other in that effort. And I feel like that’s part of it. We’re in the middle of a pandemic. And none of us can really go to church right now in some of the states that we live in. My state is California, we don’t get to go to church and I missed that sense of connection with others, that are what I would say, helping me along my way of helping me stay closer to God, more connected with my spiritual side, more connected to other people that are on the same path. And I feel like there’s real value in that. And I miss it.

Clint  16:43

Oh, no doubt there’s value in that because you derive value from it.

Wendy  16:48

Yeah, but it wouldn’t matter if it was, you know, going to my church. I’ve gone to church with a lot of my friends and their churches. And I feel that same sense in every church I’ve ever attended.

Clint  17:00

Oh, I’m so glad you brought that up. Okay, so we started this conversation with the interesting phenomena that is feeling a spiritual connection through an inanimate object, right, through touching a gravestone, or the things that your grandfather left you and feeling a connection to that particular person. I agree some people who are atheist would say, well, that’s just a strong memory that you’re feeling. And that could be true. But now that you’ve brought up the idea of walking into a church, church was a big part of my life. My entire growing up, all the way up until I was my first year of college. I went to the same church and it was my community and those kids are my best friends and all that kind of stuff. There’s just this vibe. Then I stopped going to church and I started exploring a bunch of other stuff. But whenever I walk into a place of worship, and it almost doesn’t make any difference, I can say this with complete conviction, it doesn’t make any difference what the religion is or what the dogma is, it doesn’t make any difference at all. When I walk into that space, I feel different. In a really good way. I feel different. I’ve kind of explained a little bit of that, in my own mind with this thing that human beings have as a collective. There’s a part of us that are designed, in our DNA, to be tribal and operate as a group. And there is such a thing as mob mentality, which you have to be mindful of, because that can certainly go in the negative, but in terms of worshiping with a group, I’ve experienced this also in a meditation, where you’re in a class or a group that’s going to do a mindfulness practice and you feel it’s completely different. And you’re able to go a little bit deeper with your meditation at that moment because you’re surrounded by people that are kind of deepening the silence, if you will. And when I walk into a church, I feel this is a place where people are connecting to the Divine, and I feel it in that physical place. How does that work? It’s just a building with a bunch of paintings and glass and whatever. But how does it work that it feels different when you walk into that space? And more specifically, when it’s empty. That’s when it hits me the most when it’s empty, that I feel that. Do you know what I mean?

Wendy  19:38

I know exactly what you mean. And I’ve encountered that so many times as a wedding planner, walking into different churches. And feeling that same feeling. I remember in one instance, that was a Greek Orthodox Church in in LA and I believe it was a cathedral. All the lights were off, nobody was in there and I stood at the threshold and I felt like there is a totally different energy here. Good things happen here. And it was like a sense of awe and wonder of I want to feel more of this. I wonder if it’s because the attitude around going to a church or a synagogue, or temple, whatever it is, we’re seeking different things when we go there. I think people create different emotions when they’re there versus let’s say, going to a restaurant or even being outside in nature where it’s a revered place. Whether it’s consecrated or recognized as a peaceful place. And I feel like our souls recognize that.

Clint  20:53

that’s interesting. Wait, first of all, when you said threshold, that means like when you the very first door, you hadn’t even gotten into The space you just were right there.

Wendy  21:02

So in that particular Cathedral there’s like a foyer area before you walk into the sanctuary, right? And I was standing at the threshold of the sanctuary and they opened the doors, and I just stood there and it was like, it took my breath away. Like I felt different.

Clint  21:19

Yeah, Yeah, absolutely.

Wendy  21:22

And then I turned around to kind of because I felt embarrassed, like, okay, does everybody feel it? I’m just a wedding planner. And so I turned around and I was talking with them. And then the mom says to me, look now. They had turned on all of the lights inside of the cathedral and I felt my eyes welling up with tears.

Clint  21:42

Oh.

Wendy  21:45

Kind of special moment for me where I was just like, I don’t know anything about your your faith or your belief system. But what I feel right now is pure, and wonderful and lovely. And it’s all of those good things we seek in life, where we’re looking for those feelings. And there it was in that moment, and then I went inside. I just I wanted to learn all of the different paintings in the ceiling and the wall and everything that was depicted. Like I just wanted to ask questions about every bit of it and buy it and I started to actually IPN there. I don’t know if he’s a priest or the officiant that’s there and asked me if I was ready to get baptized because I was so inquisitive. Because I thought to myself, if I feel this way here, I want to know more about what’s here.

Clint  22:38

Yes, you see that in the movies a lot with Catholic cathedrals, where they’ll have an alcove off to the side for the mother Mary, and then they have the candles and all that kind of stuff. And there’s certain rituals. I think rituals are really powerful and they’re a necessary tool for human beings. For a lot of reasons, but it is fascinating to me, too, because a lot of times they’ll have stained glass depictions or paintings. I did a funeral at, it wasn’t even a church. It was a, what do you call that? I forget it. It was a chapel. It was a chapel with the mortuary and the connection of the cemetery and that sort of thing. They didn’t have pictures, they had quotations around because it was it had to be like a universal chapel. It had to be open, not necessarily to any one faith. And so they decided to look for the best of humanity. And they put quotations around to maintain that vibe, and they were all in the spiritual realm of people. It was very moving. It was very moving and isn’t that a fascinating thing? I think we’ve had a lot of discussions about a lot of things that are spiritual and are on a certain level confusing. This is one of those things that is so overwhelmingly confusing how that vibe it can permeate a particular space. That it’s, it’s magic. You know what I mean?

Wendy  24:18

I didn’t want to use the word magic. But then I thought, Oh my gosh, that would sound silly because we’re talking about spirituality. But magic is exactly the word I felt inside of that Cathedral. Yeah. It’s so hard to even articulate how you feel because the sensation is so positive, and peaceful and comforting. You know?

Clint 24:39

Yeah, definitely. If only stupid people could get out of the way.

Wendy  24:47

Can’t we just go back to church yet? I’m Ready.

Clint  24:52

Okay, well, you touched on a couple of things that I want to bring up in future episodes when you mentioned that you’ve worked with people that are Muslim and their idea of Paradise and, and that’s fascinating. So at some point we should do a little research and see what we can find. And we’ll discuss that because I like that too. All right. Do you feel good about this one, Wendy.

Wendy  25:15

I love it. I love it. And I feel like, for the listener, if you’re looking for that magical feeling, I’d say go to church. It’s there. I felt it in many churches all over all over the country. I tell you in the world, I remember going into some of the churches in England and feeling like this is a sacred space.

Clint  25:39

Oh, my gracious. Some of their huge cathedrals that have the most amazing people, saints buried underneath it. Yeah, absolutely. It’s crazy. The difference though, is that if it’s a tourist attraction, I don’t feel the same deepness. You know what I mean? I think I wonder what it would feel like if there was nobody in the building and to walk into that majestic Cathedral? And what I would feel then if there would be a difference?

Wendy  26:13

Everybody’s there for a different reason when it’s a tourist attraction, but I remember going because we went very early in the morning, obviously, because we were in a different time zone already. So as soon as it opened, we were there. And it was that. And I remember just walking in, and it was like the air was still. Yeah. And it was it was quiet. And if there was a sense of reverence, and knowing what has taken place in that space over centuries.

Clint  26:43

When I did go to England, the person that I was with would look at a building and say that building is older than our country. And then look at another building that buildings older than our country.

Wendy 26:54

Wow.

Clint  26:55

Yeah. That’s cool. All right. Listen, everybody. We really, really want you to be a part of our conversation. We’d love this whole exploration. And Wendy, why don’t you tell everybody how they can get in touch with us.

Wendy  27:06

The easiest way to find us is to go to spiritualcake.com. We have all of our notes posted there. So if you’ve missed one, you can go back and listen to or read. If you don’t have time to listen, you can read all of the transcripts. But we also have the ability where you can email us and suggest a topic or join in the conversation. You can also leave comments on the posts, or you could click one of the social media icons and connect with us on Facebook and Instagram.

Clint  27:35

Beautiful. And please understand that when you come into the conversation, we welcome you with open arms and we would just love this whole journey. That’s it, everybody for this episode of the spiritual kick podcast. This is Clint and on behalf of Wendy We will see you next time.