Meditation. How to begin meditating. What are the benefits of meditation? Is meditation spiritual or non-spiritual?
Clint 0:00
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of spiritual cake, a conversation between two people who are curious about the spiritual side of the human experience. My name is Clint Hufft. And with me is Wendy Dahl.
Wendy 0:14
Hello.
Clint 0:17
I know I left you out to dry there for a second. Normally I say Wendy, and then you know, but I
Wendy 0:22
I know. I just jumped in.
Clint 0:25
You know what it is? I’ll be honest with you. In my head. I was thinking, let’s just see what happens next.
Wendy 0:32
You sound like my daughter every time she scares me. It’s a different reaction. And so she says that same thing where she’s like, What was she going to do this time?
Clint 0:41
Well, okay, we could dive into that at some point, I would imagine. But I want to make it clear to those of you who are joining us for the very first time, Wendy and I are laypeople. That means in the structured religious world, we are not ordained clergy. We’re not. But we have a very diverse background in regards to experiencing, and interacting with people from different cultures and traditions and theologies and philosophies. We’re both in the event industry. And I also have had a very diverse personal educational journey that I love, I just love and so we thought that it would be great if we started to explore just kind of all different things that are connected to what we call spirituality. And what I think is interesting, Wendy, is that is that there are certain things that I think are connected to spirituality that aren’t part of the the general public’s awareness that yes, that is a spiritual thing. Does that make sense?
Wendy 1:45
Absolutely.
Clint 1:47
Yeah. At some point in the future, we will dive into different things that are spiritual that people haven’t identified as spiritual. But what I want to talk about today is the idea of meditation and prayer. Because while they are separate, they have similar qualities. And my first question to you is, do you meditate?
Wendy 2:13
I do.
Clint
You do?
Wendy
Actually, I do and and it’s become an area of focus of mine for probably the past. I’d say 10 years,
Clint 2:24
You know, that’s a play on words. Meditation has become an area of focus for you. Get it? Because that’s what meditation is. Yeah.
Wendy 2:33
Yes, I get it.
Clint 2:35
Okay. Anyway, so you said 10 years, 10 years. Okay, tell me that journey. What kind of meditation you do, just kind of fill me in.
Wendy 2:44
So I would say it’s kind of an evolving thing where 10 years ago I met a really good friend of mine who opened my eyes to the dimension of spirituality that is not not religious. It was connecting with your inner self, it was connecting with energy and connecting with the universe in the world and that sort of thing. So it brought a totally different aspect to, I would say meditation in the way I was thinking.
So, I learned how to do meditation. I actually was listening to Deepak Chopra, and some of his meditations. And then I was listening to my friend was actually making meditations. And so hers were guided meditations, as we’re Deepak Chopra’s.
But it actually got to the point where I started to meditate every day. And I would do it in the morning first thing, instead of turning on the television or picking up my phone, like the very first thing I did was meditate. And I realized that meditation was a tool that calmed my mind, because my mind is very busy. And, there was all kinds of things going on all the time and so, when it came to meditating, I used to have to focus on meditating itself and focus on quieting my mind. And now I can go into the theta state very quickly. Because it’s almost like a spiritual muscle, where the more you practice it, the easier it gets.
And sometimes I find that I can do it, when I’m when I’m doing routine tasks. Like if I’m putting my makeup on, I follow the same sequence every day, if I’m walking or riding my exercise bike, or whatever it is that I’m doing, that’s something that my body can go through the motions where my mind can also be doing the same thing. As a result from that, I would say it’s begun to play a role in prayer as well. And I know we’re going to connect the dots to that in a moment but I feel like it’s deepened not only my connection with myself, but I also feel my connection with my soul and my spirit. And with the spirituality and the world around me.
Clint 5:06
Are the soul and the spirit the same thing?
Wendy 5:10
Well, I define them to be the same thing. Okay, I know other people have different definitions. But for me it’s one in the same as in God and universe is one in the same.
Clint 5:19
Right? When you said those two words together was the first time that I ever thought of that. I mean, I’ve never asked that question before. It’s, boy, this stuff just fascinates me. So what I’ve heard you say is that you learned a technique, and I’m calling it a technique just because there was a process by which you learned how to quiet your mind and get into what you call the theta.
Wendy 5:46
Absolutely, yeah. theta. So it’s essentially, when you’re meditating, you’re focusing on brain brainwaves. They’ve done studies on brainwave activity during meditation and what parts of your brain are stimulated and what aren’t. And so, but theta would be pretty much the most meditative state, in my opinion.
Clint 6:09
So let me give you a little bit of background. When I was 21, I started taking yoga. And it wasn’t just a yoga class or like nowadays they have where you just do the postures, it’s what they call Hatha Yoga, and it’s the physical side of yoga, and there’s all different variations of that. And that’s what most people identify yoga with is the physical side of it, and the postures and the stretching and that kind of stuff, which is awesome.
Because the thing about it is that, at least the place that I went to, we called it an ashram. We call them an ashram. But I’ll be honest with you, it was just a place where I went twice a week. I would go during the week, and we would split 90 minutes. Yeah, let’s go with 90 minutes. We would split 90 minutes in half and we would do postures for about 45 minutes. Then we would do meditation and talk about some stuff for 45 minutes. But then they also had like a service on Sunday mornings, which was great, because they would sing, and we would do meditation again.
And, it’s a community, which is great because it gives you that sense of community, which I think every single church and temple and anywhere a bunch of people gather. There’s that community aspect attached to it. And that’s where I first was introduced to the concept of meditation. And I’ll get to that in a second in terms of how they described it and what they suggested.
But then, because of all the different things that I read and explore and that kind of stuff. In the 60s, what became really popular because of the Beatles, was Transcendental Meditation. And I have never done that. But I have close friends who have done it. And then of course, you hear people talk about it. They’re very famous people that got involved in Transcendental Meditation during the 60s, the late 60s and early 70s. The Beatles discovered the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who obviously was in India, and they just identified him.
And he was the one that came up with the idea of transcendental meditation, which is basically based on they give you a sound. And it’s very personal. In fact, when they give you the sound, you’re not allowed to tell anybody else what the sound is. They give you a sound that you repeat over and over again in order to quiet your mind. And it gives you a focal point so that when your mind starts to wander, you have something you can bring it back to. Then I just heard an interview with somebody, the author that wrote the book Quiet. Are you familiar with that book?
Wendy 8:36
I haven’t read that book.
Clint 8:39
It’s fascinating. It is geared towards introverts, and it explains how the business world has profited and succeeded by the efforts of a lot of introverts. It’s fascinating and it’s a best seller, a lot of different languages and yeah, it really was this pivotal point. Anyway, I just heard the interview with her. And she described how she does a Vippasana, and it’s based on paying attention to your breath. And then now I go back to the yoga center. And what they suggested, the guy who ran and he said, You just want to pick a thing that you can focus on something that you would enjoy focusing on. And he suggested for like, 20 minutes. And he said, and every time that your mind starts to wander, you just acknowledge, okay, and then you bring it back to whatever you want to focus on.
And he didn’t care what that thing was. In fact, there were some people, some of the students that said, Well, I really liked orgasms. You know, sexual orgasms. I’m going to focus on that. And it wasn’t that they would continue to have orgasms. They would just remember what the feeling was, and they would focus on that. And there were other people in the ashram who would say, well, yeah, but we’re trying to rise above the sexual plane. What’s the deal? And he says, that’s all right, they’ll rise above it. They just need something right now where they are right now. So they can train their mind. Okay, everything I’ve said so far, does it make sense?
Wendy 10:10
Yes, because I used to call it mental conditioning, where it was how to relax my mind, it was almost being aware of the mental state that I was in and learning how to calm it. And you’re right, the focusing part, when I was listening to the Deepak Chopra, meditations, he would give you a phrase that you would repeat based on whatever meditation it was. Sometimes they were in Sanskrit, sometimes they were in English. But out there, yes, there was always something to focus on.
Clint 10:45
I have a theory about that. Remember how I told you at one of the earlier episodes that I look for the common thread, and whatever it is, I’m looking, I’m researching. I told you that all of the fitness and diet books if you just eat your green vegetables, You’ve covered like 80% of their advice.
So the same thing with meditation, what I see repeated over and over again, is the concept of focusing on a thing that gives you a, like an anchor, that you can come back to when your mind starts to wander, whether it’s a sound, or your breath. Or I’ve started this thing where it’s all about what I’m feeling in my body, I identify areas where I’m holding stress. And this actually goes back to the postures side of yoga, the Hatha yoga where you do the stretching and the different positions. What I was taught was that you hold the stretch for at least a minute, and you breathe, and try to release all of the tension that you’re feeling as you stretch your body in that particular way. I always resonated with that. I mean, I did a lot of other different types of meditation techniques, but, now what I’m doing is, I quiet my mind and I hold a lot of tension in my neck and my shoulders. And I’ll just go there and allow it to release. And what I discovered is I’m able to get to that place of no thoughts of just being, which I think is, is that the theta state? Is that what you’re talking about?
Wendy 12:20
I think so at the theta state is the frequency.
Clint 12:24
So that’s interesting. So anyway, what I found that works for me, and I also found an interesting byproduct of the meditation but before we get to that, because I do want to explore that with you. Go back to the brain waves. Are you actually able to discern different brain waves within your own process?
Wendy 12:48
No, I wouldn’t say that I’m able to do that. I would say that I’m able to identify when I’m, it’s, I suppose. It’s almost like It’s, it’s not my, it’s really hard to articulate, obviously. But when you’re in theta, you don’t really recognize that you’re in theta until afterwards because you’re just experiencing the meditation as it is. And so it’s not like you go into meditation going, I’m going in for theta, which I know that in certain meditations, you can, but for me, it’s just reaching the optimal part of meditation where I’m completely at peace, where I’m completely relaxed, and the thoughts are just not they’re focused on the one thought or breathing, like you said, or whatever it is. And it’s not like what I would consider an everyday thought, where you’re thinking every day, this is what’s gonna happen, this is what’s next. And then all the things that you’re experiencing all come together in thought, but when you’re in theta, you’re not saying, Hey, I’m in theta. Afterwards that you recognize that you were in theta. So I guess that’s why it’s hard to articulate. Because when you’re doing it, you’re not saying you’re in theta in your mind. It’s afterwards because when you’re in theta, you’re totally completely meditating.
Clint 14:19
Right. I heard another interview with somebody who has been meditating for a while and she said, the pivotal point for her in regards to the meditation practice was she went to like a Silent Retreat, like a meditation retreat where they meditate a lot. And she said, it kind of turned the corner for her because before that, the way she described her meditation practice was thinking with your eyes closed, because her mind was so active, you know? Or she said, It’s either thinking with your eyes closed or falling asleep. One of the two things.
I think there’s a process I mean, there’s different stages were the thing that when I suggest, I’m not a meditation teacher, although I think that’s calling to me, because I like the idea of meditation for beginners, because there’s a lot of people that are achievement oriented. And there’s a lot of, like, holier than thou people. And they don’t say those words, but they always like, well, I’m a better meditator than you.
It’s just part of the human condition of trying to establish a hierarchy. But I think the message that I would like to share with the world is that there’s no wrong way. Everybody just begins at the same place. And you have these different techniques to it’s almost like in basketball, there’s basic shooting techniques, but you see people all the time, that kind of do their own thing or golf. Oh my gosh, a golf swing. There is such a thing as a pure golf swing. But then you see these other people that are incredibly successful and their golf swing is all wacky. Same thing with hitting a baseball. I had a friend that was a really successful baseball coach. He said, You watch people that go up to the plate and they’ll hold their bat. And they’re like, all these different configurations of their body, he says, but when you get to the point of contact with the baseball, at the plate, you look and their bodies are all exactly the same.
So that’s the way I feel about meditation. I think that there’s a lot of different techniques or suggestions. But two things. Number one, the basic idea is that you relax your mind. And you relax your mind and you give a focal point so that you have a place to go back to when your mind starts to react. That’s the number one thing right? I see that consistent with every single technique.
The second thing that I would like to share with anybody who wants to begin meditating is you can’t do it wrong. Don’t worry about it. Just relax. It’s okay. It’s okay. Your thoughts are going to be busy. Even people that have been meditating for decades, still have periods where their mind gets busy while they’re trying to meditate. It’s just part of the deal. It’s okay. And you’ll find something that will resonate with you that that will work. And then it’s a process and don’t worry about it. Sometimes you’ll have longer periods of quiet. And then sometimes you’ll have really short periods of quiet. Sometimes you’ll have periods of quiet and all of a sudden, you’ll have a brainstorm idea. Kind of like what happens when you’re taking a shower and all of a sudden you you know how to solve one of the world’s big problems. And, and there’s just all of that kind of stuff. First of all, what I’ve said so far, what do you think of that?
Wendy 17:32
I think you’re spot on. And I would even add to that. Meditation to me is similar to music where I want to meditate differently depending on my mood. And so sometimes I meditate to calm myself, sometimes I meditate because, perhaps it’s after I’ve prayed and I’m listening. Sometimes I need to meditate where I just need to neutralize and like grow. I’m intensely working on something or I’m in an intense period of time or transition or change and I just need to calm down. And so there’s no perfect way or correct way to meditate for everyone. I feel like meditation also takes on its own role in your life depending on what you’re experiencing and how you can use it to offset whatever it is that you’re dealing with at that moment.
Clint 18:31
I agree. Also, there’s two things that you said that struck a chord in me. One is, there’s a difference between meditation and contemplation. When you hear a spiritual leader say, I contemplated this particular idea or theory or situation in my life, that’s not meditation. That’s allowing yourself to to process with a quiet mind. Meditation is a different deal.
And the other thing you said is that you will sometimes meditate after you prayed, which brings me to a talk that I did at the Wedding MBA, which is for the wedding industry. And my subject that I was given was dealing with difficult clients. And my approach was, it had nothing to do with a client. It had everything to do with the person that was going to deal with a difficult client. Because we can’t control other people, we can only control ourselves, or at least, put ourselves in the best possible position.
And one of the things that I brought up was meditation as a way to not get caught up in drama. And I said, because I’m dealing with a room full of hundreds of people, and I know they all come from all different backgrounds. And I know that there are certain words that are trigger words. And I said, listen, meditation is one thing. I said prayer could work for you as well. However, consider this. The purpose is to relax Your mind. And so if your idea of prayer is a deep conversation with God, where you actually are talking to the higher power, that’s not meditation. Because if you’re saying I want this, and I want that, and that, even if you go into gratitude, thanks for this. Thanks for that. And thanks for this. And thanks for that. You’re getting in the way of the goal. And the goal is to just sit with the Divine. Just to be present with the Divine and allow that experience to permeate every cell of your body, which I think is kind of like the same process as what we’re talking about. But it does elevate the entry point. If you have that kind of approach to it to say, I’m going to connect with the Divine in a very quiet way. Does that make sense?
Wendy 20:58
It makes perfect sense. And generally when I meditate sometimes it’s not sequentially right after a prayer. It could be a day or two afterwards as I’m in meditation. And, sometimes it could just be the phrase that I’m focusing on that day happens to be in perfect alignment with what I just prayed for. And then it’s almost like the answer. They always say the answers are often within yourself and the answers generally are. And it’s almost like you rediscover that as you’re focusing on the goal for your meditation, or focusing on the sound whatever it is, when your mind is clear, then it’s like the world reveals itself. It’s hard to articulate for me what happens to me during meditation because it’s not directed thought.
But then all of a sudden, all these wonderful things happen where it’s either I’m calming down or I’m centering or neutral. Realizing or strengthening or having courage or recognizing the blessing that I didn’t recognize previously, or whatever it is, every time I meditate, it’s different. And so it’s hard to to say specifically like this is the outcome because the outcomes vary so vastly for me,
Clint 22:20
Well, that brings us into the next phase of meditation, which is what happens after. And, that’s been revelatory for me. And the thing is, is that most of it is unconscious. And when I say unconscious, I don’t mean like it’s operating on a different level, like a subconscious level. What I’m talking about is that we’re not really aware of it. We’re not consciously aware of a lot of the benefits of meditation. What I’ve noticed, and this is bizarre, and I can’t really explain it, but what I’ve noticed is that I’m more comfortable getting stuff done. It just seems like there’s a flow. I’m just getting more stuff done. Because what would happen before I start meditating again, because I took a break for quite a while and then I just realized that okay, well if I need to, then I should that sort of thing about a year ago and so I figured out a place in my daily schedule where it would fit perfectly and then what I also noticed is that before I would get caught up in my to do list I would think well okay, I want to do this. No, I can’t do that because I really need to do this and this and then my mind just gets crazy and then I freeze. You ever go through that where there’s like so many things to do that you almost paralyze yourself?
Wendy 23:37
Oh, absolutely. I think I as a woman that happens naturally all the time.
Clint 23:42
Wait a minute, as a woman?
Wendy 23:45
Well, we always get teased about having all of our our tabs open in our brains. I will be the first to claim that Yes, that is true about me. In particular, not all women but as a woman, I identify with that where there’s often quite a lot of noise happening in my head.
Clint 24:06
Are you a fan of Harry Potter? Have you ever watched the Harry Potter movies?
Wendy 24:09
I love Harry Potter and Okay, I wish there were six more movies.
Clint 24:12
I agree. I Well, that’s what Fantastic Beasts are for. But I digress. So, there’s a scene that I love. And it’s in the fifth movie. And Harry has created the Dumbledore’s Army, where he’s training these kids on magic, right? And they find a secret room or whatever. And this is a long build up, bear with me. And then he there’s this girl that he’s really interested in her name is Cho. And then they have a kiss. And then afterwards, he’s talking to his best friends Ron and Hermione about the experience. And Ron is like, well, how was it? And he said, Well, it was wet because I think she was crying. And Ron teases Harry and says so it was that bad.
And then Hermione pipes up and says I’m Sure Harry’s kissing is just fine. Then she launches into this whole explanation of what Cho’s going through. She’s feeling this and she’s guilty because of this and there’s this, this, this, this, and the guys are just like in amazement.
Then Ron says the perfect thing. He says nobody could feel that. They’d explode. Hermione says to Ron, just because you have the emotional span of a teaspoon. That, to me, summed up the entire male female experience that right there.
Yeah. My daughter went through a couple of things where she was like explaining this and they were thinking this and this. I had to explain to her guys don’t think like that, because guys don’t think.
So, anyway, I think that what I’ve noticed is that one of the great side benefits of meditating besides just the relief of stress And the release of of tension and things is that freedom that comes with a less stressful life experience as I just go through the regular just things you do on a daily basis, I realized that there’s a bunch of stuff that I just got done little things. Sometimes it’s little things that are just in the back of my head, like one of these days, I’m going to fix that. Well, after I started meditating, I realized that as I’m walking through my house, I just went over and fixed it. And then I moved on. These little things that would take maybe 20 minutes at the most, a lot of times, they’ll only take five minutes, but you just table them because you think No, no, no, my priority is this and this and this. And these things are in the back, always nagging at you. But what I found is that if I relieve that nagging, then the thing that I’m going to focus on, I’m able to really focus on.
Does that make sense?
Wendy 26:50
It gives you clarity. Absolutely. You’re closing all the tabs in your mind. That’s what I call it.
Clint 26:56
How long does it take for those tabs to reopen?
Wendy 27:00
You know, sometimes you wake up and all the tabs are open. Sometimes in the middle of the night even I’ve had ideas come to me out of a dead sleep.
Clint 27:09
Do you write them down? Do you have a thing?
Wendy 27:11
Do I actually have a pad of paper in my nightstand that I write ideas down on.
Clint 27:16
I try to do that before I go to sleep. What I’ve heard is that if you are really clear on a question, before you go to sleep, then number one, it’s almost like you’re saying to your brain, Okay, there you go. I don’t have to think about that anymore. And then you wake up. And a lot of times, there are certain solutions that your brain has to be able to get. Have you ever heard of that?
Wendy 27:37
Oh, absolutely. I agree with that 100%. I feel like your your mind works things out for you.
Clint 27:45
Now when I’m meditating, and brilliant, if I may say so myself, brilliant ideas come to me while I’m meditating. The discipline is, it’ll be there when I’m done. Because a lot of times, we think I gotta write it down. Right? Now I’m going to forget. But when I’m in meditation, I just have to have some faith that it’s okay. I’m going to focus on what I’m focusing on for another however many minutes that I’ve allotted for my meditation, and whatever that brilliant idea is, I just have to have faith. It’ll be there when I’m done. So don’t worry about it.
That’s the muscle that I think you referenced at the very beginning, is that muscle that you develop and exercise in regards to meditation, which is interesting, because it’s an anti muscle, you know? Instead of engaging a muscle that we normally think of in terms of exercise and strength. It’s the anti muscle that in order to strengthen it, we have to relax it and not use it. I guess. That’s weird.
Wendy 28:45
It’s true. It’s cute and anti muscle, but it’s almost like relaxing of the muscle.
Clint 28:52
Well, it’s the intent behind the relaxation. When I was referencing the poses, and yoga The idea is, of course, the benefit, the physical benefit is you’re going to lengthen that muscle you’re going to relieve, you’re going to make the body work a lot better. And if you see people that have been doing yoga for a long time, they don’t get pulled muscles. They just don’t, because they’ve balanced the body and they’ve lengthen the muscles and the tension and da da da. Most pulled muscles, just a little physiology, most pulled muscles are because one muscle is overpowering the other one, right, you don’t get a pulled muscle because you’ve overstretched or that kind of thing. You’ve pulled the muscle, pull is not really the right word, but it’s what we call it, because you’ve asked more of a muscle than it’s ready to give at that moment. Usually because there’s a contrary or an antagonistic muscle that’s overpowering it.
So the stretching and releasing, that’s the thing behind the releasing is what I think is, oh, it’s okay to identify that what I’m really doing is allowing my body to go into a different state and the Oneness byproduct of it will be a better physiology but the higher side of that is approaching something that is a part of me. It’s all around me, it is through me, that I don’t identify with consciously moment to moment, but it’s always there and I’m gonna allow myself to sink into it. Does that make sense?
Wendy 30:20
Perfect sense. Yes.
Clint 30:22
That’s the kind of thing that I think we’ve referenced the training module, the orientation for leaders, if there was a way to kind of let them wrap their minds around that idea that you don’t have to make a big thing out of it. It’s already with you. It’s okay if you acknowledge it as your best friend. Holy moly, thank goodness we transcribe this.
Wendy 30:48
I know right? It transforms your presence when you come into a scenario. I lead teams every weekend and there are different team configurations. With different players every time and they actually call me Yoda sometimes, it’s really cute, when I walk into a room, I can neutralize the room based on what’s happening because I can sense what’s going on. It increases my sensory skills, so to speak, and I can sense what’s happening in the room and I can address things with people. I visualize myself sending them calming energy, or I can speak to them and and calm their mind. And so it’s just discerning which way I need to deal with that situation. But if all leaders could approach stressful situations, with that level of awareness and ability to bring a better situation to fruition, I think we would definitely have a different business climate entirely.
Clint 31:57
I agree. And I like that’s coming more and more into the popular consciousness. There are people that are actual atheists, they’re very avowed deep atheists, but they are looking at meditation and all of these exercises and techniques in a way to elevate the process of the mind. And I think that’s great. You know what I mean? I really do. I mean, everybody’s entitled to their unbelief. But the idea that they’re raising the level of consciousness a little bit at a time, I think is such a benefit to humanity as a whole.
There you go. Well, Wendy, I think that’s enough for today.
Wendy 32:35
Thanks. So too, what a great, great talk today.
Clint 32:38
I agree. All right, everybody, there you go. Remember, you can reach out to us. We have a lot of different ways when they tell them all the different ways that they can reach out to us.
Wendy 32:47
Well, the easiest way is to go to our website, which is SpiritualCake.com. And there you will find links for social media accounts. And you can also send us an email to join the conversation.
Clint 32:58
Absolutely. And we’re on a bunch of different social media with Facebook and Instagram, I think and yeah, and you can also just email us directly [email protected] and we check it every day and anything that you would like to tell us about or ask us about or something that you would like us to discuss. We would love it. So there you go. That’s it for this episode of the spiritual cake podcast. This is Clint and about half of Wendy. We will see you next time.
