C: Hi, everybody, welcome to another episode of spiritual cake, where we talk about anything and everything that is connected to that aspect of humanity we call Spirituality. My name is Clint Hufft. And with me is Wendy Dahl. Wendy.
W: Hi, everyone.
Spiritual Cake Podcast: Spiritual Cake Podcast 5 on Apple Podcasts
Social unrest in America. The difference between protesters, rioters, and looters. How to have civil conversations during intense emotional times. When it’s time to simply listen with an open heart and mind. What are the tools to deal with anger, frustration, and confusion? Perhaps another course of…
C: So just to be clear, for those of you tuning in for the very first time tuning in, that’s an old reference. Wendy and I are not official clergy. We are what we call laymen who have a tremendous curiosity and the conversations that we’ve had in previous episodes have been just so satisfying and wonderful. And trust me, we haven’t really solved anything but we certainly love the exploration process. Would you agree with that, Wendy that it’s been that kind of a deal.
S: Completely. There some golden nuggets in there though.
C: Oh, well, yeah. The if I if I do say so myself. All right. Well, we are recording this on Monday. June 1, 2020. Now normally I don’t timestamp the episodes, but I thought it was relevant today because America is in civil unrest. A lot has happened. And since we recorded last Wednesday, and I’m in Los Angeles, and there have been riots and looting and protests, and not in that order, you know, usually it starts with a protest.
I saw a Facebook post a couple of days ago that I thought was relevant and well thought out. it said, at the at these turmoil occasions or at these, you know, riots, there’s actually three different types of people. There are the protesters who just want to kind of make their voice heard, and they’re peaceful and so on. Then there are the agitators who really want some kind of aggressive violence to take place. And then there are the looters, who couldn’t care less about the previous two things. They just want to steal stuff.
And I thought that makes sense to me. Because my daughter is a protester. And I have friends that are protesting. But they also have said, and now we have to run, because you know, it’s hitting the fan and we got to get out of there. So on and so on. And I, I would imagine, oh, let me back up a little bit. In the early 90s, there was a huge hurricane in the Southeast. And I don’t really know exactly where I don’t remember. It might have been Katrina, I don’t remember. But I met a guy who was an insurance adjuster. And his whole thing was, he just kept like, monitors out for natural disasters. And he knew if a hurricane was going to hit land or, or there was an earthquake or whatever it was, and then he would immediately travel to that area, because he made a ton of money doing insurance assessments.
And so I’m thinking that there’s a same type of planning ahead by people who are looters. Because here in Los Angeles, there have been a number of hotspots. In fact, some places have gotten hit that I thought would never ever get touched just because of the amount of security. So there’s Santa Monica and there’s Long Beach and up here in West LA, and they’ve gone over two days. And I can see where a looter would say where’s the protests going to be tomorrow? Alright, let’s go there. Because we know it’s going to eventually evolve into or devolve, depending on your your point of view, into violence and then we could start looting. Alright, I’ve said a bunch of stuff. Does it even make sense?
W: It does. And I was pretty much having the same discussion with my children last night, you know, because I actually have a very, very conservative son, and then a moderate daughter and and helping them see each other’s perspective to understand the difference between a protest and a riot and looting and to understand the difference between, you know, the protests that were a couple weeks ago were about, you know, freedom from being on lockdown and wearing masks and all those things. And now it’s almost like in rebellion to what happened in our country. We’re in that unfortunate event with involving a police officer and an African American male. And so, you know, and just kind of teaching the difference between something that’s organized where it’s a bunch of individuals coming together to protest peacefully, and then something where it’s organized and it’s rioting and looting, and it’s, it’s a totally different dynamic to what’s happening. And so, um, you know, and it’s, it’s one of those times where I’m watching the feeds and social media. My heart is broken. You know, I actually majored in criminal justice.
C: I didn’t know that
W: I did. Well, I mean, I was in college, and I had all these extra credits that I had to use. And I thought, well, why not put it towards something and the only minor that fit within the time frame I had was criminal justice.
C: Wow.
W: And to be honest, there was one thing that stood out from all of that education. And it was simply that there was this “Blue Wall of Silence,” which I had never really heard about before, but had a very clear understanding that in that profession, that there are certain people who do bad things, and the other people cover for them. And you know, that that exists, it exists. And most I mean, when I was in corporate it was there. When I’m doing weddings and somebody makes a mistake. They’re looking at the other people like “Hey, don’t tell anyone.” So you know that that’s it’s not necessarily only something that exists in the police force.
And I know that the good cops that are out there, the worst thing in their mind is the bad cop. And so, conflict even exists within that. But the point I wanted to make is that, you know, seeing both sides and watching what’s happening, my heart is broken for humanity, because I feel like right now, we are showing our very worst towards each other. As far as arguing and anger, and I understand that things are bad. There’s days where I am enraged about what’s happening in the world, with our government, with the World Health Organization with all of these things, but I choose every day not to be angry and not to spoil the world and to be – sorry, the dogs outside have decided to have a discussion.
C: It’s like 101 Dalmatians.
W: But anyway, the My point is simply that you everybody has a choice. And I actually saw a video that was, it brought tears to my eyes. So there were three African African American men, the one that was pretty much the main speaker was in his 30s, who was arguing and calming down a man that was in his 40s, also an African American man. And then there was a 19 year old African American man. And the one in his 30s said to the one that was in his 40s, you don’t have to be this way. It doesn’t have to be this way. And he brought the 19 year old to him. And he said, you need to think of a better way for this generation. This generation right here, this 19-year old and he was even saying he had a five year old, this generation that is coming into this world and this is their first time seeing this, because they don’t remember Rodney King.
C: This is right.
W: I’m seeing this and what are we teaching the beginning younger generation about this. And so that to me that man is exactly how I feel like I understand there’s anger and hurt. I feel the same anger and hurt. What happened was wrong. But I feel like the response to it the protesting part. totally fine. That’s that’s your first amendment right to be able to do. But the the riots and the looting, we’re destroying our own country, we’re destroying other people’s freedoms. And it has nothing to do with the problem.
C: Well, I think it goes a few different layers in that, like a cake, if you will. There are people who were victimized, have been victimized, that had nothing to do with with the issue. And if we’re talking about you know, Black Lives Matter and racial equality and stuff like that, Well, it’s a shame that and you know what? I’m old enough, Wendy, to remember the 1964 Watts riots, the 1968 Detroit riots. And then of course, you know, Rodney King, but I remember all of that I remember as a youth as a kid that I was I wanted to watch and see and what happens next.
It’s scary because well, it wasn’t scary for us because we were we were a fair amount of distance away from where the hotspot was, as opposed to this weekend when it turns out we’re like a mile away. And it was interesting to see, Okay, and then what now? Okay, I was thinking about this this morning. There are certain things I just cannot understand. I can intellectualize but I cannot understand.
Like you’ve had three kids, you’ve given birth to three children. I have no idea what that’s like. None. Right? And I have no idea what it’s like. To be a person of color, and to face on a daily basis, prejudice, and things like that. In fact, there was a beautiful post. It was sad, of course, but it was so well written about a young black man who’s a father and he says, If I want to go for a walk, I have to take my five year old daughter, or I have to walk my dog. If I go by myself, I’m subject to the situation. But if I show that no, no, I have a five year old daughter with me. And then the role of bodyguard has been reversed. The dog is protecting me, my daughter is protecting me, and why does it have to be this way?
And I will never understand that level of prejudice, that level of oppression, that level of inequality. And so being mindful of that, I have to be really careful to say I understand because I don’t. And when people protest, like for instance at a conversation with my daughter yesterday we went the city, the county of Los Angeles went on an early curfew on on Saturday, the curfew was eight o’clock. But because there was still more rioting and stuff, the curfew yesterday was six o’clock. And my daughter was down in about 30 miles away. And I said, just spend the night down there. Don’t bother coming back here. It’ll be safer for you if you spend the night down there because the curfews already enforced. And then she started saying, well, this happened. And that happened and because of this and the police and da da da. And I said, Okay, now you have to be careful, because what you’re telling me is something that somebody told you. And we don’t know if it’s factually accurate. We don’t know if one thing led to another thing led to another the way you were told. I said, you have to understand that I believe what you’re telling me is what you think is accurate. But what I’m suggesting is that you analyze what was said to you. Because that’s the misinformation I think and the inaccuracies that are that are a huge part of the problem. Does that make sense?
W: Absolutely.
C: And that’s another thing with, you know, our source of information. I mean, there is something to be said, Well, no, I don’t know. It’s always been inaccurate, almost everything has been inaccurate in terms of information transformation, or transferal. Because even back in the, in the tribal days, you know, people would sing songs and tell stories and, and that’s how you got information. And then as as society kind of got more savvy, or they had different ways different, like, the Gutenberg Press or whatever, and then as we go along, the problem still exists of is this information factually accurate? Or is it just opinion and is that opinion tainted, you know, by a bias?
That’s why if I besides the fact that I want my kids to know that their father always loves them. The other thing is that I would love for them to be able to have a couple of filters of what is this information? And does the person giving this information have another agenda? And how do we in order to, you know, and then, okay, I know I’m on on a kind of a rant here. But then what happens is I get overwhelmed, I get overwhelmed with with what I cannot control, and how much is way bigger than me. And my response is to come back to myself, because I’m the only thing that I can control. Back to myself and make sure that I treat people with kindness and and respect. And that’s the only thing that I can control. Right?
W: But that’s truly I believe the foundational piece here. Is that as humans, how are we showing up for each other for today? How am I showing up for somebody else? For today am I bringing kindness into the world? For today, how am I impacting that? Are people becoming better because of me or worse because of me?
C: And I also think it’s okay to evaluate is is is are my actions effective? Like if I want to go march in a protest, then will it have the impact the desired impact? What am I really doing? Or do I just want to show solidarity to the people that are close to me that have been oppressed, as opposed to do I think this is going to actually bring about change? Because that solidarity that that’s really valuable as well, to know that people support you? You know?
W: Absolutely.
C: I think it’s okay. In fact, I think it’s healthy, to, to question things, even even questioning one’s faith. And, and I think all of that is all tied together. There was some letter that was brilliant. It was written by I think, Thomas Jefferson. And he was writing to a young associate and he said, question your faith, question everything. And I think that’s the foundation.
That’s one of the things that I respect about the Jewish faith is that they’re constantly questioning things. Constantly. Which I think is so healthy. And so when it comes to social unrest, or political rhetoric, I think it’s very healthy to just question it. And, be mindful. I have to be mindful of my own bias, because I live in a liberal bubble, you know, here in, in Los Angeles, near Hollywood and all that stuff. And, I have to be very mindful. In fact, it’s healthy for me to be on Facebook, and see people that are adamant about the other side of the political spectrum. It’s it’s important for me to see what they talk about and how they express themselves and what points are they making. I think it’s really, really important. That’s what I found for me.
W: Well, I think that’s a good a good way to approach things for sure, and I’m always taking that into consideration, and I and for me, I’m looking for a way to be empathetic towards people, like how can I relate to this situation? And for me, as a woman, there are times when I fear for my safety, and for me, it’s when I’m alone. Or, being a single mom, that’s definitely something that you fear of, like, well, if something happens to me, then what? You know, and and you can branch out in 100 directions from here, as far as you know, the government regulations that are new in our state, and how that’s impacting our lives. And is it right, is it fair? There’s so many different things that as humans as Americans that we’re experiencing that can help us feel for what’s happening in the world right now. And to be like, you know, I’ve had those moments where I feared for my safety, where I’ve been sad because I can’t go outside by myself. Or I can’t, you know, go on vacation by myself because I fear for my safety. Not saying that it’s the same, but I’m looking for a ground to find empathy so that I can share.
So I can meet that person in their dark space and sit with them, like you said, to be on their team and to support them and to be like, how can we? How can this move forward? And I feel like with our system, as, as it is the current structure of things right now, I’m really feeling like Americans are not feeling heard by government, whether it’s local, state, federal, Americans no longer feel like we live in the land where the government serves the people. And I think that, in this instance, where the police force used excessive power, the government also uses excessive power and I believe that as individuals, we are starting to have our eyes opened to how excessive it is truly.
C: Yeah, and, Boy, that’s a tipping point where you and I could get into a political discussion. I hear what you’re saying is like how, for instance, what you just said about being a woman. Again, I have to be told that. I can’t relate to that, you know what I mean? I can relate to if I go to this part of a city, as I could put myself in a precarious position, although, not really not, I mean, certainly nothing compared to what women go through on a daily basis and that sort of thing. So now you expand that out to every single unique. Then there’s one more thing that I would like before we sign off on this episode, and that is the personal responsibility that everybody has as a representative.
Now, think about it. I’m a representative of so many different things. Like the very first car I bought for myself was a Mazda and had a rotary engine and they were unique. It was very unique. And, then I’m sitting at a driveway ready to pull out into the street and a guy driving this very almost exact same car is coming towards me. He sees me. I see him. And we both like raise our fists, like yeah, like we had a brotherhood, right? And now all of a sudden, I’m representing Mazda cars. Right? As a driver.
Remember, a couple of decades ago when there was this rash of really valuable cars, high end expensive luxury cars that were getting keyed? Where people would take a key and then just scrape paint along the side of the car. Just because it was an expensive car. Right and I assumed that that was a protest against the people that drive those cars. And, not knowing anything about the actual individual that drives that car. The person with the key made made an assumption. Right? And, and I think, to be mindful that we are representatives of so many different things. I’m a representative of white males. I’m a representative of middle class American, I’m a representative of the car that I drive, the neighborhood I live in and, how I express myself. I’m an officiant right? But people then automatically think they can’t curse around me. And, how I behave, you know? So with that in mind, again, with the idea of bringing it back to the individual bringing it back to ourselves and what are we in control of, to be mindful that we are representative of everything that we are attached to, I think is important in regards to how we present ourselves. Does that make sense?
W: It does. It does. I think the influence here lies within each individual to like I said, be responsible for what you bring into your space. How you represent yourself, how are you improving the world? How are you making it better?
C: And it’s tough to not try to correct other people, right? Oh my gosh.
Yesterday I had a phone call with a guy who is going through a really really rough divorce. And he was complaining to me about his now ex-wife. And, I said something, hoping to make it better, you know, hoping to like well, it’s just, you can let go of that now. And he said, I just called you to vent. Oh, no.
W: That is such a good reminder. You know, it’s like when we carry anger and hate and frustration I even do it to myself or, you know, yesterday I woke up like a pistol. And I thought how can I let go? I did.
C: how does a pistol wake up?
W:Angry!
C: Okay, okay,
W: I just thought to myself, how can I let this feeling go because it is not serving me. And so I actually drove down to the beach and I stood there with my feet in the water and I just looked out and I just thought, breathe. Let the ocean take it away, you know? And I was just trying to figure out how do I calm myself down because I am upset about what I’m seeing. I am upset about my children being, they’re living in this world where there’s so much fear going on. I mean, my oldest one fear really impacts him. Really because he’s got anxiety and, and so how do I protect him? How do I make light of what’s going on in the world? When will it end? How will it end? How will going forward, like that gentleman said, how will it be better for the next generation?
C: That’s right. Well, I like the way what, I hope I understand this correctly. But there’s a thing about Buddhism that says you don’t ignore whatever it is, you acknowledge whatever it is, and then allow you to process. So what I would just offer and again, I told you about my friend yesterday, and how I offered a suggestion, and he just wanted to vent, I’m about to do it again. So please forgive me. But what I, what I am thinking is that you acknowledge your feelings, you went someplace where you could process it. And then to your oldest, the gift that you would give to him is that those same tools.
W: Yes, and also how just how to find peace.
You know, you have to have a certain set of tools in order to find
you do and those are exactly them. It’s to acknowledge what you’re feeling to establish that you’re feeling them and to let them go if you can.
C: Yeah, and it’s sometimes it’s not so much that you let them go like they’re gonna dissolve or disappear. It’s just they, they’re in the proper context. Right, and they’re not as powerful. You say, Oh, I see you. Okay. You know, that sort of thing. Well, gracious, man. hooey. Okay. I think we need end have this episode.
Yes, that’s a heavy one to listen to. So thank you for sticking with us. We hope that you’re finding peace and that there’s ways that you can neutralize yourself and to let go of the things that aren’t serving you and to show up better for yourself and for the world.
And we are in the process. Wendy and I are in the process of setting up all of our ways of communication, social media, and email and websites and all that kind of stuff. So we really want to establish a larger conversation with all of you as well. So thank you all very much for listening to this episode of the spiritual cake podcast. This is Clint and on behalf of Wendy, we will see you next time.
