Despair and Gratitude. The seductive power of communal agreement. Are we designed to help each other?
Clint 0:24
Hi everybody, welcome to spiritual cake, the podcast where we talk about anything and everything that has to do with that part of humanity that is the spiritual side. There’s the physical, the emotional, the intellectual and the spiritual. And we love to dive into everything that the spiritual side of humanity touches. My name is Clint Hufft. And with me is Wendy Dahl. Wendy.
Wendy 0:45
Hello, hello.
Clint 0:49
Hello. So I’m really excited about what we’re going to talk about today. But before we do that, I just want to clarify to those of you who are joining us for the first time neither Wendy nor I are ordained clergy, let’s just say that right off the bat, because I want this to be an open conversation. And I want everybody to understand that we’re exploring. There isn’t a definitive thing. We’re just exploring and offering what we’re trying to figure out on a daily basis. With that in mind, Wendy, do you have something that you wanted to talk about? And it’s so coincidental because I was thinking about exactly the same thing before we connected this morning, so I’ll let you go ahead and describe whatever it is you want to do.
Wendy 1:28
Okay, so what has been on my heart these past several days is noticing that in life, the narrative could be negative, there could be things that you’re surrounded with that are all bad, and you’re thinking, Oh, my gosh, I’m sinking into the depths of despair. But then, I believe that at the same time, the same for or the opposite force of equal part is also in existence where, when you’re in the depths of despair, there is good still happening, and that God is there making good things happen in your life, in other people’s lives, an equal part to that which is negative.
Clint 2:12
Now, I agree. And I’m also curious because basically what it boils down to is a conversation about people, about what people are experiencing. And so what I’ve noticed is it’s really easy for people to jump on a narrative. And it it does, like for instance, let’s talk about the major things that have happened in our lifetime. So 911, right, I can still very clearly remember when I got the phone call from a friend of mine saying you need to turn on the TV right now. And then there are earthquakes, I remember very clearly, in the apartment complex that I lived in during the Northridge earthquake, we were really close to the epicenter. And, so it was just the way everybody kind of reached out to each other and then what the media was telling us about the economic recession in 2008. And what the media is telling us now and it’s not just the media, but what we’re telling each other. What, on social media, which has never been stronger, what social media, that dialogue, and maybe it’s not necessarily a dialogue, I have a feeling of some people just want to spout. They just need to get stuff off their chest. They’ll jump on a bandwagon. But what I’ve seen is that there is really a concerted effort for people to help each other. Does that make sense?
Wendy 3:34
Absolutely. And you see it in each one of those instances that you’ve mentioned. I remember 911 and how devastating it was for our country. But if you remember, every car had a flag sticker on it. It was it was one of those moments that Americans, no matter what your differences were, the day before you stood together as Americans.
Clint 4:08
I even had neighbors that were compelled to go donate blood. Okay, that’s fantastic. And it’s interesting because we have this drive inside each of us to help in some manner, which I think is fascinating because for the last few years, I’ve been filtering everything in terms of human behavior through the idea that we need to survive as a tribe, that we’re basically hardwired exactly the same way human beings were when they lived in tribes in the desert or the forest or whatever. And that’s the only way they could survive is with each other. And we still have that same wiring. And so that whole idea of a simple pleasure of doing a simple act of kindness still is built into us. That whole thing about helping an old lady across the street and maybe it’s just even holding open a door for somebody or or somebody needs help carrying packages or whatever it is, and now you kind of magnify that to the needs of humanity or the community on a small and a larger basis in regards to the pandemic and, what has surfaced in terms of people’s needs, physically, emotionally, financially, and it’s how people are taking care of themselves, but they also can’t help but they are looking out for those around them as well.
Does that make sense?
Wendy 5:27
Absolutely. Case in point, and I remember driving down the street, just a few weeks ago, and in it was in a, I guess, a commercial area where you wouldn’t even imagine this to happen. But there was a pop up food bank, and there was a line of cars that were there to get free food and we’ve saw this in our own industry where caterers had an abundance of food at the beginning of everything and they were donating it all and the same thing happened where all these restaurants and all these caterers have food, where they’re like, well, I guess because we’re not going to be open to the public to sell our stuff. We’re going to donate it to people who need it. And even, in fact, one of my connections has a restaurant in Anaheim. And he feeds the homeless kids or kids in foster care every day. And I remember reading something about him. I think it was just last week where he was saying that he had served over I think it was 100,000 needy children, just since the pandemic started.
Clint 6:33
Did he have that program in place before the pandemic?
Wendy 6:36
He did. But it was one of those things where they shut his restaurant down, which funds this. And so miraculously, the funding kept coming in from people in the community to keep this program going, even though he could not operate as his restaurant.
Clint 6:57
That is so cool. Yeah. See how good that makes you feel, when you hear stories like that?
Wendy 7:01
I love those stories that surrounds us all the time that just don’t make it into the mainstream narrative, whether it’s a social media conversation, a news conversation, all the things that you you hope that you’re surrounded with that would bring in positivity and right now all we’re seeing is the negative. Even in the in the business that I’m working in where it seems like it should be a negative impact where there’s so much good that’s happening as well. So I think for me, the perspective shift happened about last Thursday when all these good things started popping up among all of the the angry narrative where I was like, Oh my gosh, we are truly helping people. And we’re saving jobs and we’re saving families and helping people and, lifting and creating jobs for people that are out of work. When I was able to post on LinkedIn, like, Hey, we’re actively recruiting for all of these different jobs, please, private message me if you need a job right now and do you know I had more than a dozen connections that I have in the event industry reach out from all levels of the pay scale that were like, hey, I need a job, whatever it is, I’ll do it. And I thought to myself, this is how we help each other and it almost makes me choked up thinking about it, where it’s just one simple post one good thing and how it permeated into all these other lives, where they are now able to bring in money to feed their families.
Clint 8:33
You know, it’s amazing how human beings are built. They talk about the chemical release when a mother is nursing a baby, or they talk about the endorphin release from a certain amount of exercise or whatever it is. And here we are talking about stories that are frustrating, and how that makes us feel, which makes me think there’s some sort of chemical release in the body. And then we’re also talking about these feel good stories and immediately How elated I became and I’m guessing that something was released in my body, you know what I mean? And it’s fascinating how the two coexist. And I think it’s just a matter of what we decide is going to give us personal power.
Let me explain. I noticed that when my my first kid was about four years old, I was watching the behavior of the other kids in the daycare thing. And there was one girl who the mother was telling me about her acting out or whatever the case may be. And I thought that little girl just wants personal power. And she realizes that in the limited resources that she has, if she acts a particular way, she’s going to get a response from these big people, the adults that normally she has no control over, that normally are taking complete control of her. But she’s discovered that if I act this way, I get personal power. And so I think that there’s something in regards To the complaining thing that makes people feel powerful when they complain. But there’s this euphoria that also has its own power. When something good or helpful, let’s define good. It seems that what we’re talking about the word good, as it relates to what we’re talking about has to do with helping others. Would you agree with that definition?
Wendy 10:25
Yes, in this case, it’s definitely about that and uplifting them at the same time. Yes.
Clint 10:32
Right. And, and the uplifting from an emotional standpoint, can be through something that you do physically, something that you do financially, something that you do, just from an uplifting thing, where like, you’re there to support them, you’re there to offer suggestions, you’re there to relieve some of their stress, whatever it is. But isn’t it fascinating that this is built into us? And I wonder if that’s part of the spiritual experience is that thing that makes us feel good when we help others, what do you think of that?
Wendy 11:06
I believe that is exactly it. Where it’s a matter of focus. Where you want to focus on uplifting other people, and building them up and bringing the good and noticing the good and being aware of it and surrounding yourself with it. And all of the wonders that happened from God and the blessings that you have in your life where you could focus on those things, or you could focus on the negativity and I feel like you were saying that there’s that chemical release within you. I feel like there’s something to be said about feeling those feelings together. Like when you’re angry, feeling angry with somebody else, essentially sort of validates that feeling of anger, and it brings you closer together. But in the same sense when you’re feeling those senses of compassion, And, love and hope and joy, that also brings you together. But it elevates you in a different way. So it brings you together but it’s elevating at the same time. And so I’m sorry,
Clint 12:19
Okay. I want to dive into what you just said in regards to anger and elevation. So correct me if I’m wrong, but did I hear you say that if you’re angry at somebody, or if you share an anger with somebody? Could you just clarify that?
Wendy 12:38
So if you’re sharing in the feeling of anger or fear with somebody, you have a different sense of it’s like you’re validated in the way that you’re feeling right. But you also share it with someone else. So it creates connection. Right?
Clint 12:57
Oh my gosh, that’s right. What I was thinking about is the first part was the validation. If we’re all talking in the same, what do they call that the same sandbox or whatever, we’re all in our bubble. And we keep telling everybody politically or whatever the same thing over and over and over again, and it makes us all get outraged and feel really self righteous and feel good. But the underlying component, as we’re talking about is that sense of community, the sense of belonging, the sense of being, not just belonging, but being accepted. And in this particular case, because we all think the same way. Right. Now, at some point, talk about whether or not that’s really healthy for a human being to stay in that sandbox. But I think it’s fascinating that we’ve talked about how we have choices. We get to make choices in regards to whether we wallow in that particular thing, because it feels good, and so we’re just going to stay there for a while. I keep referencing Harry Potter. And in the very first book, there’s this mirror called the “mirror of ereset” where whoever looks in it will see whatever they most deeply want in their hearts. And so Harry sees his parents. And Dumbledore says a lot of people have gone crazy, staring into that mirror, because they ignore reality. And I think that kind of thing happens for people that stay in the bubble of people that are all screaming about the same thing. And it takes a little discipline to step outside the bubble, and question, and allow yourself to be open to other ideas. Does that make sense?
Wendy 14:30
Perfect sense.
Clint 14:32
So now I’m curious about I’m wondering, you tell me if you think this should be a separate conversation. But what I’m curious about is the definition of what’s good and bad, and how it relates to the Divine. Because I know that it’s instinct, it’s trained in me and it feels good for me whenever something good happens. I am grateful. I am appreciative of the blessing so to speak. Even something as simple as, will the light change when I approach the crosswalk? It does. Oh, thank you God. And that may be totally off base. I don’t know how the universe works, but it makes me feel good to have gratitude for whatever is beneficial to me. And so that could be as simple as it stopped raining just when I wanted to go play basketball outside and so thank you God. And that may not have anything to do with Divine providence. Do you ever think about that kind of stuff? About what are you grateful for? What do you consider a blessing and what may not be a blessing at all, but just kind of like the way the universe works?
Wendy 15:42
All the time and I even frame some of those things. I call them God winks.
Clint 15:53
Oh my gosh, that is so good.
Wendy 15:55
yeah, isn’t that cute? A thing to remind you that I’m around even in the depths of sorrow and despair that there’s this little wink like, don’t forget Me. I’m still here. And so yes, it’s the same thing when you pull up to a parking space, and it’s the one in the front and you’re just like, Wow, thanks. You know, and I feel like it’s a frame of mind, so to speak, where you’re looking for those good things, where you’re looking for something to be grateful for, because then you get to celebrate when good things happen more often than somebody who’s approaching a parking lot going, Oh my gosh, this is so busy, I hate it. I don’t want to be here. I’m going to get the very last spot in the very back. And sometimes that does happen, and then you acknowledge it going, yep, life sucks. And so it’s just a different way of looking at it thinking I’m in this parking lot is busy, but I’m gonna get lucky today and get a great spot versus I’m in this parking spot and I’m going to be in the back and then you do and so it’s the same you can approach every situation in the same manner. You know, and I’m thinking of the extremes.
So let’s talk about some of the heavier feelings that we all have as humans of loss and grief, and how to know that there is equal amount of goodness that happens, because let me tell you a loss and grief suck. And it’s that, like, they say, the valley of the shadow of death when all of the things seemed lost. And then all of a sudden, this ray of light shows up. And whether it’s comfort in knowing that like in the sense of loss, like let’s say you lose a loved one, the sense of knowing that they’re in a better place, yes, from a personal perspective, you lose your access to them, but there’s that sense of knowing that they are okay. Or that God is there with you to comfort or that it brings your family together closer or your friends together closer and, and that brings us back to that community that you spoke of where we need each other. And that it’s a human trait to need community and to meet each other. And grief in the same thing. I can’t speak to depression because I’ve never been in that scenario. But when things seem at their worst, I always think to myself, okay, well, I’m at rock bottom, there’s only one way to go and that’s up. And then I look at it of what are the changes I need to make? How do I need to reshape the way I’m thinking? How do I need to ask for help in a different way in my prayers, how can I make it so that I can turn this around or that heavenly father or God will turn this around so that that miracle shows up that you don’t expect
Clint 21:04
You know, there’s another side to this as well, that first of all the depth of what you just said, I don’t want to gloss over that I thought that was really cool. But the other thing is that if we can be a little bit more accepting to realize that one person’s kind of how they deal with the blessings and the frustrations of life is okay, as long as you you recognize that maybe anything that allows them to move on and not wallow in whatever it is. And that’s the positive as well. I mean, sometimes people can get stuck, get caught in trying to make things positive in being too, like goody two shoes, or the opposite of debbie downer. I mean, you can get stuck in the down part. You can also get stuck in the in the positive side to the point where you’re not allowing yourself to feel all of your emotions, but here’s the point that I wanted to make. And that is the little things that you and I have just confessed to where something will happen. And we just say thanks, God, or whatever it is, I think it’s okay for everybody. Whether you’re an atheist or you look at the world, however you look at the Divine or whatever happens in the world, if you have a sense of gratitude for the little things, then I think you’re on the spiritual path. I think that to allow yourself gratitude for those little blessings that come into your life. And no matter how people do it, because you and I both know that if we listen to a young person, I’m talking about, like a four year old, explain something, we can’t help but feel superior. Like, we’re smarter than that person. Oh, isn’t that cute? The way that that little kid interprets that thing. Then we start doing it to other people. I think maybe we need to take a step back and realize that we’re all on our own path. We’re all have our own spiritual experience and mental and emotional process by which we are going through this particular life. And to allow somebody to say, Thanks, God, for some insignificant thing that just happened. I think that’s great.
From a human human standpoint. That was kind of rambling. Does that make sense?
Wendy 23:19
Yes, it does. It does. And and it brings it back to anytime that there is negative happening, that there’s also the equal and opposite happening, and it’s just which are you aware of?
Right, and they can coexist? It’s okay. Absolutely. And to give people space to allow themselves those little treats I used to.
Clint 23:41
Here’s a weird analogy. So when the recession hit in 2008, all of the financial advisors were all saying, stop going to Starbucks. You know, you gotta you got to kind of tighten up your budget and stop doing that stuff. And Starbucks. They didn’t. They’re their sales did not dip fact it might have increased just a little bit because people were looking for small ways, what I called simple elegance, where you can you can spend like four bucks or five bucks on a drink and make yourself feel rich just for that one moment.
Wendy 24:15
And I think honest to goodness, truth, you know, I call it living well for less.
Clint 24:23
Yeah, we’ve been through those times. The top takeaway for this episode, though, by all means is and that’s God winked.
Oh, I love that. That’s so good.
Wendy 24:30
That should be on a T shirt.
Clint 24:40
Oh, yeah. I’m just trying to figure out the graphic for that. But we’ll figure that out. It’ll go into our store. It’ll be fun. Okay, I think that’s enough for today because I think that we’re on the tipping point of some pretty deep discussions in regards to some of the things we’ve touched on today. So I if it’s okay, we’re gonna wrap this one up. All right with that.
Wendy 24:57
I think that’s perfect.
Clint 24:59
Okay. Perfection is so hard to achieve. Well, there you go, everybody. That’s the way this works in the spiritual cake podcast we have just a dialogue, kind of an open discussion and we want you to be involved. Listen, it’s really simple you can reach out to us you can go to spiritualcake.com. You can click on the Contact Us you can see some of the transcripts of our episodes. You can also just email us spiritualcake[email protected]. spiritual cake podcast at gmail. com. I check it every day and we would love for you to join in our conversation. That’s it for this episode of the spiritual cake podcast. This is Clint and on behalf of Wendy. We will see you next time.
